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  • FEMA Grants

    Am I wrong but do I see a large portion of these grants going to California, there seems to be a growing trend here. I just finished a sampling of both rounds of grants by state and no other state can touch California for the amount and size of grants. And, damn if those Paid Depts are that poor we volunteers are in real trouble. Looks like another goverment farce. O Well so much for us old east coast volunteer departments
    Pres41 (Pete)
    [email protected]

  • #2
    I agree. It also looks like Florida and Texas are fairing pretty well themselves. I bet you could add all the grants that were awarded to the Midwest areas, such as KS, NE, IA, MO, OK, SD and they wouldn't total what the three states have recieved. Probably wouldn't total CA count. I know that only two depts. in KS have recieved grants from the first two rounds. There wasn't one in the first round. It's becoming a little bit disheartening while we sit and wait to here something for our small Vol. dept. Well, maybe hear something next week
    Be safe!
    sigpic
    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

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    • #3
      Gosh, imagine that...
      States with Big Populations getting most of the money.

      California -- the most populus state at 33.8 million.
      Texas #2 at 20.8 million.
      Florida #4 at 15.9 million.

      KS has 2.7 million
      NE has 1.7 million
      IA has 2.9 miilion
      MO has 5.3 million
      OK has 3.4 million
      SD has 0.8 million
      Combined that's 16.8 million people -- not much bigger than Florida, less than half of California.

      I'd expect those big three states to get about 4 times as much as those small states listed, as they have four times the people to protect.

      The grants are already being award 43% Career/57% Volunteer or Combination based on the % of the US Population protected by each -- so you're not going to see a huge slant towards rural areas. Career departments have better odds, since while there is a lot fewer departments protecting their 43%, while there is a lot more vollie departments numerically to carve up their 57%.
      IACOJ Canine Officer
      20/50

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      • #4
        Yes the bigger states have a higher population, but they also have a higher number of paid depts and if they protect a higher number of people then their tax base should be higher also thus more moneys available, the truley needy volunteer Depts in the small and rural states get screwed again
        Pres41 (Pete)
        [email protected]

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        • #5
          Everything is relative.

          More people = more fires = more equipment = more maitenance costs = more money, and on, and on it goes.

          If your department is lucky enough to get a grant this time, good for you. If you don't get one, tough sh--. Maybe next time, but don't begrudge the ones who do get it.

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          • #6
            Dalmation 90, Please don't screw up the "emotion" of the thread with FACTS that spoil the whole argument.
            Bob Compton
            IACOJ-Proud
            IACOJ-HALL OF FAME-2003

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            • #7
              Yes the bigger states have a higher population, but they also have a higher number of paid depts and if they protect a higher number of people then their tax base should be higher also thus more moneys available, the truley needy volunteer Depts in the small and rural states get screwed again

              Huh?

              At the risk of once again ruining a perfectly good thread with facts and figures (sorry, it's raining so I can't go out and mow the lawn...)

              Per Capita Income
              CA $22,439
              TX $19,857
              FL $21,677

              The Small States:
              KS $20,869
              NE $20,448
              IA $20,265
              MO $20,717
              OK $17,744
              SD $19,577

              Hmmm, most of those small states have per-capita income within $1,000 +/- of the big states.

              If you adjust for cost of living between states like California with high housing and energy costs and more affordable mid and southwestern states, the actual differences become in the hundreds of dollars.

              For instance, it costs 21% less to live in Oklahoma City than Sacremento (which is still a reasonable to live in part of CA) while maintaining the same lifestyle. In other words, $22,439 in Sacremento is the same as $17,726 in OK City. Which actually places the "high" state below the "low" state in what you can actually buy with your income.

              All taxes, in the end, are income taxes. Whether they're called property taxes, sales taxes, estate taxes or whatever, if you don't earn it or have it, you can't pay it.

              I don't see a big difference between the citizens of the big and small states to pay for their own fire protection.
              IACOJ Canine Officer
              20/50

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              • #8
                I know for a fact of one application that went in from a small vol dept in the midwest and all they ask for was $3200 to buy a 24' ext ladder, and 14' roof ladder 2 axes some pike poles and all this for their 1944 Buffalo pumper, anybody want to take bets on this one. But hey those little old volunteer depts have as big a tax base as the big paid depts, so I'm told, how many paid depts do you know that are still running a 1944 Buffalo pumper as a first line piece
                Pres41 (Pete)
                [email protected]

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                • #9
                  Rather than get annoyed that we didn't get our slice of the pie why don't we just be glad that we even had a chance to get some of this pie.

                  Never in our history has such a large sum of cash been available to the fire service and from how it looks now, another round of grants will be issued next year as well.

                  Stop complaining and be glad that we're starting to get some support from the government.

                  - Turk II

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                  • #10
                    With less than 10% of the total awards announced so far, isn't it a little too soon to start analyzing it?

                    The fewer samples you look at, the higher the "wag" factor.

                    Asst. Chief Bill
                    Asst. Chief Bill

                    International Order of the Fraternal Brotherhood of the Club

                    Somewhere in or near north central Creek County, Oklahoma

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                    • #11
                      I dunno, but our Dept. got close to $15,000 in the first round and that is great. So far, I think we are one of the two or three depts. in CT to get anything, lucked out I guess. We are hoping for more, would be nice, but hey, this is the first year of the grant, hopefully it continues, and our @$$ hole of a president never had to give us anything. Just remember, it's not over yet.
                      "WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU REALIZED YOU WERE STANDING IN A $#@%*&% PUDDLE OF GASOLINE?"

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                      • #12
                        I too am grateful for the grant money we were given. However, I agree that some larger departments with more money and resources available to them (i.e. Viriginia Beach VA) are getting more money than some of the departments that need it. The money is awarded based on the type of grant application you sent in along with the need you showed for the money. Larger departments can afford to pay someone to write a fancy application for them. For my department it was the first time we had ever applied for something like this and we were very confused and did our best to make our case but were not sure if what we did was good enough or not. Also, I don't thank the feds for this because they give millions of dollars annually to paid police departments all over the country....they act like they are doing us a favor by giving us money for fire protection. (For more info read what Pres. Bush wrote when he took this money away from us by going to the FEMA website)Most police departments are covered in taxes...many volunteer companies are not and we have to do fund raisers constantly to raise money..I don't see the local and State Police doing that. The feds need to take us more seriously. They will when we are all paid and the citizens are bitching about having to pay 5-10% taxes per year to pay us for fire protection. I realized early on that my department probably would not get any of this money, but we did try and that is all we could do. I wish you all the best of luck in getting the money you applied for...and hopefully the feds will start to see a serious need for this money to be handed out annually. Take care.
                        Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The money is going to go to:
                          1) departments who applied (Dal90, got any stats on how many departments from different states applied?)
                          2) departments that demostrated a need
                          3) where the money will do the most good for the most people

                          Higher populated areas are going to be able to demostrate that the money would be put to better use in their area. Not to degrade the small volunteer departments. We applied too, but we protect 500 people. My hopes aren't real high.

                          And on a note about the funding in general...

                          I'd rather have more of my taxes back than have the Fire Grant. But it's there, so we'll apply. As for the fact that law enforcement gets (and has had) support from the federal government, I don't think the solution is to INCREASE federal money for fire departments. I think that the federal government should DECREASE federal money for law enforcement.

                          Local issues are best dealt with on the local level.

                          [ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: Silver City 4 ]
                          Bryan Beall
                          Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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                          • #14
                            Most police departments are covered in taxes...many volunteer companies are not and we have to do fund raisers constantly to raise money..

                            Then quit whining and get tax support.

                            Ya, ok, I know some areas even the taxes would be insufficient.

                            But insufficient in New Jersey? Or Connecticut, or most of Pennsylvania or New York?

                            Even in less populated areas, insufficient on County-wide or State-wide areas?

                            They will when we are all paid and the citizens are bitching about having to pay 5-10% taxes per year to pay us for fire protection.

                            Well, either your community has really good tax revenues or your really under-estimating paid fire protection costs.

                            Volunteer funding in my area is about 3-5% of the total town mill rate; you'd be looking at 20-30% to fund minimal career paid departments. In my town of 7,000 the minimal staffing for a paid department (not doing EMS transports, and no where close to 1710 levels) would be the same size as our Junior High School teaching staff! In other words, ain't gonna happen.

                            Of course, we have almost no local police in our area either -- my town has 2 contract state troopers, and the neighboring town of 18,000 runs with 4 contracted state troopers.
                            IACOJ Canine Officer
                            20/50

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Most police departments are covered in taxes...many volunteer companies are not and we have to do fund raisers constantly to raise money..

                              **Then quit whining and get tax support.**

                              NOT WHINING, JUST STATING FACTS. WE CANNOT GET TAX SUPPORT JUST BY SAYING WE WANT IT, THE TOWNSHIP WOULD HAVE TO MANDATE THAT. THE ONLY WAY TO GET THEM TO DO THIS WOULD BE TO HAVE ALL THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE TOWNSHIP STOP SHOWING UP FOR CALLS...I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING. MY PARENTS LIVE IN THE TOWN I PROTECT AND I SURE AS HELL WOULD NOT STAY HOME IF I HEARD THEIR HOUSE WAS ON FIRE. AND MANY OF OUR MEMBERS LIVE IN TOWN AND WOULDN'T LET THEIR NEIGHBORS HOMES OR THEIR OWN HOMES BURN DOWN EITHER. THE TOWNSHIPS KNOW WE WON'T STOP RESPONDING SO THEY HOLD IT OVER US. THEY GET FIRE PROTECTION WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY OUT MUCH MONEY AND THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY.

                              Ya, ok, I know some areas even the taxes would be insufficient. But insufficient in New Jersey? Or Connecticut, or most of Pennsylvania or New York?

                              YES. REMEMBER IN NJ AND PA THERE ARE A LOT OF RURAL AREAS. THE TOWN I WORK IN IS VERY SMALL BUT WE COVER AREAS OF 3 TOWNSHIPS OUT HERE COVERING 27 SQUARE MILES. THE 3 TOWNSHIPS SPLIT THE MONEY BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENTS THAT COVER THEM SO EVERYONE ALWAYS GET JIPPED OUT OF MONEY - THEY SAY THEY BASE IT ON NUMBER OF CALLS RUN BUT THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. BELIEVE ME I AM NOT BITCHING, LIKE I SAID I AM HAPPY THE FEDS GAVE US SOME MONEY FINALLY. THE PROBLEM IS THAT I SEE SOME DEPARTMENTS GETTING MONEY THAT DON'T NEED IT AS BADLY AS OTHERS. LIKE I SAID...VIRIGINA BEACH VA?! PLEASE THEY HAVE TONS OF MONEY COMING IN...

                              VA BEACH Fire Department demographics

                              $28 Million annual Budget
                              Combination Department
                              Twenty Fire Stations
                              FEMA US&R-Virgina Task Force Two
                              Urban Technical Search and Rescue team
                              Hazardous Materials Team
                              Incident Response Team

                              WHAT IS THAT OLD SAYING? "MONEY GOES TO MONEY"? HEY, GOOD FOR THEM THAT THEY GOT MONEY, BUT BAD FOR US POOR DEPARTMENTS THAT DIDN'T AND WON'T BE ABLE TO BUY A BADLY NEEDED NEW TRUCK OR SAFETY EQUIPMENT FOR MEMBERS. THAT IS JUST REALITY FOR SOME OF US. SO PLEASE DON'T TELL ME TO STOP WHINING. STAY SAFE OUT THERE.
                              Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

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