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  • crosslays, how do you lay them?

    We have two 1"3/4 crosslays. they are put on in what was explained to me as Chicago Loops. well there is a big disagreement between our firefighters ans the pump operator. The Pump op says that these loops should be placed at the bottom of the load so that when they are pulled, everything comes out well we have done it a few times and when they are pulled there is a big mess of 250of hose laying ten feet from the side of the truck and then had to run the hose up and down the street before making entry. the reasoning for this by the op. is that way the hose isn't charged while in the bed.

    The majority of the FF in the group say that the loops should be placed at the begining of the seconed loop. that way the hose is streched further from the truck.

    The op also states that it is not his responsibility to make sure that all of the hose is out.

    What are your opinions on this and how do you lay the hose on your crosslays?

    Thanks in advance.
    Adam J. Dorn

    "Give 'er The 'Berries!"

    These are my opinions and not of any group or org. that i belong to.

  • #2
    We pack 200' of 1-3/4 line in each of two crosslays using the minuteman load. It consists of 100/ as a "dead load" with ears on each side to loop an arm through to pull, after 100' of "live load" is pulled onto the shoulder. The live load is carried on the shoulder and is carried until the dead load is dropped and flaked. Then, the live load is flaked into a useable pattern to allow faster stretching into the structure.
    Hey, it's MY opinion, not that of my department or peers.

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    • #3
      You may want to experiment with the "triple load" If you aren't familiar, the hose is folded in 3rds then packed the way you would pack a flat load. Then all you do is grab the nozzle and go.
      PROS: entire load clears the bed
      hose is already flaked out
      CONS: really sucks to pack
      kinda hard to pull in tight alleys
      almost have to pull straight off
      Some people swear by it, but check it out.
      Another way is to put 2 loops that you grab letting one go once you feel tension. That would be the first 30ft or so thats connected to the engine. The rest of the hose you have with you close to the door or whatever.
      I believe the best thing is to take a couple of hours pack them all and pull them off and see which one you like the best.
      As for your "pump man" I think being a pump operator its part of my job to make sure the bed is clear for the nozzleman and myself.............

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      • #4
        Lumpy there explained that other load better than I did..............

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        • #5
          For crosslays we use a triple pak. Basicaly you take the hose all the way out and then divide it into thirds. Pull the the first 1/3 away from truck, second 1/3 to truck on top of the first, third 1/3 away from the truck on top of the first 2, now throw it all up there like a flat lay the differnece is you're putting on three lenghts at a time. When you pull it off you will have a 50ft run with a 150ft lay, virtualy no spaghetti. It can be a pain in the butt if you don't have room at the scene, and takes a while to get down pat but I love it (like a brother that is not a girl). One thing you have to do is make sure the hose is drained of air and water because unlike a flat load you will not be able to get the excess out at the end. We still use flat loads off the rear. But if you don't change I would say have them close to the bottom maybe the 2nd or 3rd crossing, pull this loop onto your shoulder and then place whole load on shoulder pull the load away and lay down out of the P.O.'s way and keep draging. Hope you find something that works.
          the truth never hides for long

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          • #6
            Our dept. beds 4 15meter(200'+-) per crosslay, the hose first lays to the passenger side, comes back drivers side and loops, goes back to the pass. side and loops, back to the drivers another loop back to the pass. a loop and the rest stacked on top. The sole reason for doing this is so that the whole works comes off out of the hose bed. The first man to the hoseline when it is in the bed reaches up and grabs the nozzle and hands it to the man next in line, he then runs his arms through the loops and pulls the load out onto his shoulders and then pays the load off on his way to the front door or where ever he is going. What ever is left over he lays at the side of the entrance so as to easily advance the line. If its done right it works every time all the time. I believe it is the responsibility of the hose team ie. nozzleman and his backup to ensure that the whole works clears the bed> After all its them that wants an unrestricted flow of water and besides the pump operator usually has enough on his plate at that time.

            Train safe Work safe Stay safe

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            • #7
              We also use the flat lay here also. We do use loops, but its not normally at the bottom, but at the second to last fold. I do have to say this...I hate it!!

              My suggestion, is just as lumpy said, use the minuteman. Its easy to pack, its easy to pull, especially if you have reduced personnel. You'll have to drop the extra 50 feet and go with 200 even. Which really shouldn't be too much of a problem. Carry some 50' rolls close to the panel, and your LAZY op can add a donut quickly if need be. And by the way, it is just as much his responsibility to unkink, flake that line close to his panel, just like he has to check that all of it came out of the crosslay.

              -------------------------------------------
              The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

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              • #8
                Triple Layer all the way........works great for us. Can be a pain in the *** loading if you don't have the help......but worth it considering how fast it can be deployed.

                I have read previous posts on the triple layer that had a 50/50 split on likes/dislikes with the triple layer load.

                Try it.....you may like it.

                The minute man isn't bad either and is easier to load......but I'll stick to the triple layer.
                Smile....it ain't all that bad!!!!!!!

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                • #9
                  We use the minuteman load also. Works well with the 200 fooot cross lays and rear 250 foot 1 3/4 pre-connect, but kind of difficult with rear 2 1/2 pre-connect. We have recently reverted to the flat lay for the 200 foot rear 2 1/2 pre-connect.

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                  • #10
                    Minute man for our 1 1/2 preconnects, flat lay for our 2 1/2 preconnect. Best thing to do is grab a copy of "Essentials of fire fighting" as it shows a variety of different loads in the fire hose chapter.

                    As a pump operator its my responsibility to make sure the hosebed is clear be fore I charge the line. Takes only a couple of seconds to make sure the hosebed is clear.
                    "My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea." - Tommy Douglas 1961.

                    Tender 9 - old, slow, ugly, cantankerous, reliable!

                    All empires fall, you just have to know where to push

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                    • #11
                      We use Flat loads on all our hose.
                      The company Captain has final say on what loads are used and how much hose on each preconnect.
                      A couple of companies tried using the minuteman load, but another company pulled the hose off as if it were a flat load and ended up with a pile of hose at the side of the truck.
                      With the flat load the pipe man grabs a few lengths of hose and the pump operator makes sure the rest flakes off the truck.

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                      • #12
                        We use a modified minuetman load on all of out crosslays. For the front 150' trash line I try to get it loaded trifold (baker load) when I can. Depending what officer is there we have to flat load it into the well. A little tip for everbody that are using flat loads on a bulk hose beds. Every time you get to a coupling the next fold gets a longer tail than the others. It makes pulling the estimated ammout of hose out of the bed eaiser. ex. 200' of hose needed pull the nozzle and the top tail
                        ta-da 100 ft of hose. Go back to the truck grab the next two folds and you get another 100 ft of hose break the coupling and there you go quick and easy. (credit to the Pa state fire academy for that one) We can not load out hose that way cause it does not look pretty

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                        • #13
                          Our fire department switched over to using the "Triple Load" in the past six months.

                          It definetly deploys faster and clears the hosebed faster.

                          However the triple load preconnected handline is a major pain in the butt to reload on-scene. Especially with limited space on either side of the apparatus that you're loading.
                          The white shirts downtown haven't figured that one out for us yet.
                          We used to flat load our preconnected handlines.
                          Try loading with loops or ears at the end of the first loaded section of hose, and at the beginning of the last section of hose. This will work for any length preconnect you load.
                          It will play out or flake off with practice.
                          I would advise againstloading the first loaded hose section on the bottom next to the preconnection. There isn't enough slack and you can fracture an arm trying to pull it that way.
                          The "Triple Load" can be found in an IFSTA training manual.
                          joejoe33

                          Comments and opinions are mine and do not represent the agency or IAFF local that I am affiliated with.

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                          • #14
                            I forgot to mention one thing in the first post. this operator that we have does not live within an area where he can even make "his" truck out. someone else has to take the truck out and get everything hooked up and he meets us on scene. this what what really gets us. so whenever we reload the hose it has to be his way because it is his truck, but is rarely there to see us pull a crosslay.
                            Adam J. Dorn

                            "Give 'er The 'Berries!"

                            These are my opinions and not of any group or org. that i belong to.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We use the minute man loads on our preconnects, crosslay or rear bed. They are easily pulled by one person and deploy quickly. Easy to pack as well.

                              For your pump operator...tell him he needs to get his head out of his ***. The job of the engine company is to get that attack line to the seat of the fire and extinguish it quickly, period. Everybody on that engine, include the operator needs to ensure that the hose is flaked out. A good pump operator will make sure that hose between "his piece" and the front door will be flaked out. The pump operator may have a lot to do but nothing that he has to do will matter if the attack line cannot operate.

                              You guys need to pack the hose in a way that is good for you. I personally like a like that deploys quickly and neatly with minimal staffing available and picks up easily. If your pump operator doesn't want to adapt or even see if there are any other ways...go over his head to a company officer or a chief officer. Last time I checked a Sergeant or Lietenant outranked a firefighter.

                              Hope this helps.
                              Move fast or move aside...

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