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  • #46
    Capt. Gonzo
    Thanks for the link, I think that gentlemen said all that needs to be said on this issue, the gender issue, the religious issue, etc.

    "``Firefighting is like no other job I know; the only divide I'm aware of is between those who know the job and those who don't, and it's those who don't the rest of us are leery of."

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    • #47
      I feel that if a person can do the job and isn't constantly putting their gay lifestyle on display then what they do in their off time is their business. I've worked with people for years only to find out later they were gay. Didn't change the job they did because they kept it low key. Obviously if a guy is dancing around the station in a tutu there is a problem

      If what they engage in is illegal and in the public eye or damages the department's image then I would have to say GET OUT. By definition what they do is illegal. It's sodomy. However, most of the acts us heterosexuals engage in are "morally wrong" according to some laws written way back when.

      I guess a good rule of thumb would be treat people like you would want your son or daughter treated. You never know.....you could have a gay kid someday.

      Stay safe out there.
      Tom

      Never Forget 9-11-2001

      Stay safe out there!

      IACOJ Member

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      • #48
        God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. I have this attitude that if someone does not like me or something I do, **** ON THEM. Same attitude applies here.

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        • #49
          Gay firefighters ought to stop making gayness an issue and just shut up and do the job. If you don't tell anyone your gay they wont know it and there will be no problems. If they can tell by the way you act then you are not acting as a firefighter but acting as a sexuality billboard. Grow up, if you want to be treated the same then start acting the same.

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          • #50
            OK,Ok,ok. I live in small town America, 15,000 population. We were put on the map this year by the high school kids (some of you may have seen this on the national news) They voted a lesbian(hope i spelled that right) to be the prom king. Yea thats right. this wow'd the town and some gay hatin preacher was gonna come here from some other stste, and protest in only a way a gay hatin preacher can. It was QUITE a rukus round here. My message is live and let live. Humans differences are responsible for starting every war in history. I dont agree with homosexuality. Id die if my kids ever became(SHUDDER) homosexual. I fear black youth with all the stereo typing in the movies, news and the cop shows YET, I can't remember ever meeting i black man i didnt like. same with indians, latinos, women, and booger eating morons... Well maybe a few, BUT not many! Maybe you should test for a dept that runs an all white boys club if you cant handle diversity. get over it

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            • #51
              I just wanted to say that just because some one is homosexual, it does NOT necessarily mean they "bring their lifestyle with them".

              [ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: j6200 ]
              Just my views of things.
              Stay Safe!
              j6200

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              • #52
                firemaster: sexual billboard? would it be safe to assume that if fellow members of your dept. were ask they could tell if you are hetersexual by some thing they heard you say or do since they meet you?
                FF/PARAMEDIC/CORONER/TRAINING "MY DAY STARTS WHEN YOURS ENDS"
                **SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE**

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                • #53
                  FOR........THE.....LOVE........OF........GOD!!!!!! !! WILL YA' ALL LET IT THE HELL GO!!!! WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS.WHITE..BLACK....GAY....STRAIGHT!!!!WE ALL HAVE A JOB TOO DO PAID OR VOLLY!!!!! FOR ALL OF YA' ALL THAT DONT WANNA WORK WITH "THOSE PERVERTS THAT ARE GOIN' TA' HELL" THEN DON'T..WORK IN A PLACE WHERE ALL MEN ARE THEW SAME..JOIN THE DAMN KLAN!!!!!! BUT GET OFF THIS HIGH HORSE!!!!
                  When hell comes to breakfast, who else would you want, besides a firefighter!!

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                  • #54
                    Axman,
                    I understand people getting tired of hearing all this, but I'm of the opinion (for what it's worth) that's half the problem. We all have prejudices, whether we admit to them or not, yet we don't want to talk about them for fear of making ourselves look racist, sexist, or like bigots. We don't allow our inner fears to be known, which in turn doesn't allow for the other person to calm those fears.

                    I get bored with these subjects, I won't lie to you, it seems the same thing is said over and over. BUT, these kind of conversations need to be had, feelings need to be shared so that we can get past the prejudices. If you're tired of hearing about it, just bypass this discussion, but we need these discussions so that one day that won't be an issue.

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                    • #55
                      Yeah, I'm tired of this discussion too. Demonstrating prejudice against those of other races or gender is bigotry. Demonstrating an aversion to homosexuality is morality. And those that defended me are right, I do treat everyone the same. I love the person and hate the sin- as long as sinners "Go and sin no more".
                      And I am proud to hold up the Bible as a banner- you'll never find me under any purple lambda pennon.
                      All views expressed by me are mine alone, and noone else is responsible for them.

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                      • #56
                        Not to offend anyone an any way at all.
                        Would you rather have a gay person that can do a job on the line with you or a blackman that was picked over somone better suited because they are a minority. Hmmmmm.
                        It's your life on the line. I don't defend gay people. Keep it away from me and keep your mouth shut, it may get you hurt.

                        If you are better for the job you are who I would rather see.

                        I want the BEST with me when the fire's rolling over my head in the smoke you can't see the race, weight, sex, or sexual oreintation anyway.


                        Just Remember Don't ask Don't tell

                        [ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: MFF ]
                        Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

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                        • #57
                          Firemaster - you say "Gay firefighters ought to stop making gayness an issue and just shut up and do the job. If you don't tell anyone your gay they wont know it and there will be no problems. If they can tell by the way you act then you are not acting as a firefighter but acting as a sexuality billboard. Grow up, if you want to be treated the same then start acting the same."

                          WOW! That is all I can say. I act like a heterosexual woman in that I flirt with men when flirted with, have kissed my boyfriend in front of the guys I work with at the firehouse, etc. Am I a sexual billboard? Or it is only those that are gay that are sexual billboards because you don't agree with their lifestyle? Women use feminine hygiene products...a tampon might fall out of my purse at the station in front of the guys, or I might have one in my hand to go to the bathroom and someone sees it, am I putting my status as a woman on display? No, it is just part of my everyday life. I don't act the same as the guys cause I am not a guy, I am a woman. I wear dresses, perfume, makeup, get my period, style my hair, wear panty hose, etc. I don't expect the guys to act just like me because we are not the same. As far as doing the job the same..yes everyone should do the same job..but that has nothing to do with being gay. You cannot say that they shouldn't let anyone know they are gay..why should they have to hide who they are because some narrow minded people don't like who they sleep with. Tough! As long as they are doing their jobs they should not be discriminated against for any reason. That is just the law.

                          From Boston FD vs. Miller -
                          Employees holding positions in public safety are held to a higher standard than other members of the public. See McIsaac v. Civil Service Commission, 38 Mass. App. Ct. 473, 476. Fire fighters like police officers "must comport themselves in accordance with the laws that they are sworn to enforce and behave in a manner that brings honor and respect for rather than public distrust of law enforcement personnel." Police Commissioner of Boston v. Civil Service Commission, 494 N.E. 2d 27 (1986).

                          [ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: hctrouble25 ]
                          Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

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                          • #58
                            Interesting tidbit just posted on the main page - the AP just posted a correction to the story. Karen Miller isn't gay. Apparently she's just an idiot...

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                            • #59
                              Apparently she's just an idiot...

                              Not enough of them idiot types to go around is there...

                              'Course, the world sure would be boring without idiots and pinko-commie liberals.
                              It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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