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  • What kind of gear?

    I'm just curious, what kind of gear is everyone out there using? Meaning what is it made of. In my department (volunteer) almost all of the active members are suited up in PBI with a few still in nomex. The reason I ask is one of the local departments just spent several thousand dollars to buy new gear for thier members, but instead of upgrading they stayed with nomex. To me Nomex just isn't enough any more, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
    God bless and stay safe.
    Randall E. Guntrum FF/EMT
    If lights, sirens, and air horns do not attract the attention of a driver, he or she is too drunk to be assisted by a paint scheme.

  • #2
    Right now we still have quaker nomex, but monday evening we met with a rep for Cairns and may possibly be ordering Basofil if the price comes back reasonable for what we want. I walked around in a basofil coat for a little while, MAN, is that stuff comfortable!
    There are three truths in life:

    1. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
    2. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian faith.
    3. Two Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.

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    • #3
      We also have a few sets of older (about 10-12 years) nomex gear out. Most who have those sets are members who aren't likely to be doing interior attacks. The majority of us have Globe PBI gear. The high-back pants, and short coat type, with orange-silver triple trim. A couple of departments around here use Nomex III gear, the rip stop kevlar reinforced stuff, I haven't known of any problems with it. Actually the paid city department closest to us still uses nomex also.

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      • #4
        To say that they got nomex gear really does not tell me anything. Gear is made up of three parts the outer shell the vapor barrier and the thermal liner. Each part offers diffrent things when you change the material. If they got nomex with a kick butt thermal liner and vapor barrier no problem. If they got the cheesey thermal liners and vapor barriers they could have a problem. You also have to look at what the department does if they are doing 12+ working fires a year they should have moved up to a better outershell. I work for morning pride in Pa and NJ, I usually reccomend Advance rather than nomex it cost a little more and is the strongest of the materials. The nomex rips and wears out faster so for a cash strapped vol department Advance would be a better investment. As far as PBI or Basofill they all offer good and bad things. The paid firefighters in Reading Pa have to buy their own gear out of pocket most of the recient orders were for basofil
        Pbi Expensive direct flame @1300 f radient thermal protection about the same as nomex
        Basofil Less that Pbi direct flame 900-1000 f radient thermal protection BEST
        Advance Less than Pbi direct flame @900-1000 f radient thermal protection better than pbi or nomex.
        Nomex lowest cost direct flame @700 -800 f
        Remember all this depends on all three layers
        you can build a system with nomex outershell nomex heavy batt thermal liner and a crosstech on nomex vapor barrier and get a TPP rating of 50.3 A pbi outershell with meta aramid 3 layer basofil thermal liner and a crosstech on nomex vapor barrier and get a TPP rating of 37.7 The TPP can be converted in the time you have from Pain (second degree burn) to a third degree burn. The higher the number the longer time you have. I could go on forever but I got to get back to work lunch is over

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        • #5
          Choad33 is right. Remember it's the entire garmet that protects you. Not just one part.
          As the uniform officer in a large department I researched new gear and decided to go with Morning Pride. I was so impressed I now cover part of South Carolina for a Total Fire Group distributor. (for those thniking it, no I do not sell to my own dept.)
          To answer the intital post. Morning Pride offers the best service and product. Why? Because we do not sell you stock gear. We work with your department to help you decide what is best for your application and budget. I have been there with sales people trying to convince me the stock gear is the best choice. But I get the outer shell material they want to sell, the thermal liner they want to put in, and a vapor barrier that is below par. Want to find out for yourself? Just ask what the delivery time would be for gear with a Crosstech vapor barrier, or choose some other non-stock addition to your spec. You'll be amazed at the delivery time from a manufacturer when you change one item. I have more information but don't want to open a can of worms on the net. If anyone would like some more info e-mail me at [email protected]

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          • #6
            The Cairns stuff we plan on ordering through Continental can be ordered any and all ways your dept. wants it, the salesman didn't tell us ordering from stock was better or that custom ordering was better, just explained the differences
            There are three truths in life:

            1. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
            2. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian faith.
            3. Two Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.

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            • #7
              my Dept went with globe gx7 pbi gear and there haven.t been any complaints when it comes to heat. It seems to be very liked by all. numerous other dept's in the area also use it.

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              • #8
                My department just bought 20 sets of Securitex Basofil with the works we have used Securitex for many years and we like it.

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                • #9
                  I just bought my own pbi gold from globe and it is light weight and I'm real pleased with it.

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                  • #10
                    We have several different types of gear. We have tried secuitex but it didn't hold up as well as we had hoped. It was good gear but just didn't hold up.

                    We have a couple of guys in Janesville lightweight gear and it has been doing very good.

                    The majority of our prople are wearing Morning Pride. The ISO Dry is holding up well.

                    We have tried to get the light weight gear for all of our people. So far it is a great improvement over the old gear that we had.

                    These are my opinons and does not reflect the views of my department.

                    Stay Safe

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                    • #11
                      I work for a company that sells Quaker Protective Clothing. It is one of the top 4 sellers on the market today. You should contact your quaker representative or any manufacturers representative and ask them to give you a protective clothing seminar. It will focus on the NFPA Standards relative to protective clothing (ours do at least)as well as NFPA 1851 which is astronomical in its impact on the service. I have learned after 28 years in the fire service that most all clothing is relatively the same. The fabric comes from southern mills or dupont and each company puts it together. Some have their manufacturing niches and you need to look at the construction. Quaker is superior in their construction and quality control. Some large departments such at Atlanta Ga are switching to it. Other Departments here in Florida are also making the change.

                      Nomex has a flash rating of about 750-800 degrees and then you have advance that has a rating of about 1050 t0 1100 degrees. Advance seems to be the trend. It has a 60/Nomex/Kevlar blend that makes it more resistant to abrasions and tearing while maintaining thermal protection. The question is???? Why go much higher than advance fabric where youre TPP ratings exceed 1200 degrees? Doing so puts you in more jeopardy. Why? Most SCBA straps, helmet shields etc will fail at 1200 degrees or higher. Therefore when wearing fabrics such as PBI, Basofil, Milinia (spelling) your vital airway protection and other pieces of your ensemble will begin to fail before you realize you are in trouble.

                      Ask yourself this???? How many calls do we run? How much fire do we fight? if y9ou are like most departments, 76-83% of your calls are EMS related. If this is the case and you are not running building fires every day then nomex may be appropriate. I personnally suggest ADVANCE. It is middle of the road as far as protection.

                      Another big thing in turnout gear is care and maintenance. Read 1851 and see what its impacts are. Go to www.turnoutgearcleaner.com and read the excerpts from the standard. This Citrosqueeze product mentioned there is the only product on the market that is tested and approved by the manufacturers of the fabric and the protective clothing. TESTED AND APPROVED! Most products you use contain sodium silicates, sodium hypochlorites, and sodium hydroxides...(bleaches or oxidizers). These products destroy the fabric and cause it to begin to degradate and reduce the life of the gear. Some departments that have been taking care of their gear correctly and doing proper maintenance and cleaning have gotten 10 years or more out of their gear...(Fairfax County Va.) Storage is another thing that destroys gear...UV will also decrease lifetime of the gear. This includes not washing the gear in a machine with and agitator...this also destroys the fabric. Invest in an extractor or find a department that has one and use it. AND....air dry it...do not put in dryer.

                      Bottom line is...analyze your needs. Get a good middle of the road fabric for the outer shell and then spend the money you save to upgrade your inner liner. Stay away from E89 as it is being removed from the market since it can not meet the new washing requirements. STEDAIR 2000 is the latest in technology in vapor barriers and is also used by NASA. Pick a good inner liner that will whick the moisture away from your body. STAY AWAY FROM THE SLICK OR SHINY liners....studies indicate where a lot of fire is being fought...these are the source of compression burns as the do not which the moisture away from you.

                      Questions...send me an email directly at [email protected]

                      www-elite-fire.com

                      [ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: captstanm1 ]
                      09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                      ------------------------------
                      IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                      "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                      BMI Investigator
                      ------------------------------
                      The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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                      • #12
                        After many years of using Lion/Janesville, we just switched to Globe GX-7, Millenia outer fabric, Crosstech vapor barrier and Caldura thermal liner. Millenia is a fairly new fabric (performs very well on the abrasion test and burn test.) I'd be interested if anyone has any experience with it. We did a lot of research, and talked to a couple of small departments that use it before deciding on it.

                        We looked at Globe, Lion and FireGear (neither Morningpride or Quaker are big around here, and didn't respond to our request for bids.) In my opinion, the sales reps were very helpful and didn't try to push their "stock" models on us at all. We wrote a set of specs that was quite unique, and Globe did the best job of meeting them, in my opinion.

                        **The opinions expressed herewith are mine alone, and do not reflect those of the department or the city with which I am employed.

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                        • #13
                          In the past year we have been getting in some great new gear, I was in the first batch and love it. Custom measured Morning Pride PBI gear with the integrated harness in the pants and the rope pocket in the coat 'tails'.

                          Cool, safe and very useful!

                          Scott Henry
                          www.miamivalleyfools.org

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                          • #14
                            We have been a globe department for years, moving from nomex to PBI gold about five years ago. We have noticed a shorter life on the PBI than the nomex, same 7.5 weight shell. The PBi is much more sensative to UV light and abrasion than the nomex. Some nomex coats 15 years old are in better shape than 5 year old PBI. Fire load is light, and gear is wearing out in storage. We have begun to issue gear bags with all gear now to avoid exposure problems in storage. Cheap insurance. We have just ordered the same spec coats in millenia fabric. Better UV resistance and abarasion resistance. As for the differance between 900 and 1200 degrees, I dont know anyone who would be likely to stay in either temp. These are not proxcimity or approach suits. Price for the newer fabric about $20 more per piece. We felt that we needed something that would endure better than the PBI. Gear dosent do any good if it is shredding from UV exposure when you get the 1-2 structure fires each year.
                            Capt406, IACOJ#780

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                            • #15
                              Hay Lt706 Your getting ripped off the Basofil (milenia) fabric is cheaper than PBI If you are from Lebanon PA give me a e-mail I sell the stuff for about $30 LESS a set with a delivery time of 4 weeks. How long you wait for your globe 4 months or more I bet. Have fun and PLEASE shop around before you buy you may be missing out on a better deal.

                              [ 08-01-2001: Message edited by: WebTeam ]

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