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  • Fire Act Rejection Letters

    Has anyone started to receive grant rejection letters?

    For what catagory?

  • #2
    No rejection letter, but got a call from FEMA asking our back account info for a 1500 gpm/ 1500 gallon fully equipped pumper tanker.

    Comment


    • #3
      Keep in mind that only 3 million has so far been announced. There is still 97 million to go so dont think youve been shut out until you know for sure.

      There will be 150 million in 02 and 200 million in 03. From what our congressman told us departments that receive grants in 01 wont be eligible as to make it fair for others to get them.

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      • #4
        yes 3 million has been awarded, but there is 87 million to go, because FEMA gets 10 million for administrative costs.

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        • #5
          Everyone around here was pretty happy when we got the official word that we got our fully equipped pumper/tanker. The odds were pretty much impossible, we spent 2 hours on the application at the last minute and pretty much figured we get funded fully and did. Sure beats a rejection letter. Now we wait and see if we got any loose equipment money for another project.

          Comment


          • #6
            >> Everyone around here was pretty happy when we got the official word that we got our fully equipped pumper/tanker.

            Do you have a letter in hand stating this?? If so, why haven't they simply put out a press release telling us that the letters have gone out?? I have a funding project on hold with my municipality, pending our FIRE Act grant rejection from FEMA. We know we have no chance of getting a grant for a Quint, but needed to "spin the grant wheel" for political reasons. If letters are actually out in categories other than training, FEMA needs to get their collective *** in gear and just tell us what's going on. All I need is to have what I already know in writing so I can push forward through other channels. Let's go, people! Less photo ops and press conferences, more action!

            >> We spent 2 hours on the application at the last minute and pretty much figured we get funded fully and did.

            If stories like this are true, I'm writiung the next one on toilet paper and sending it in a box full of dog s**t. If this is strictly a fire-welfare program and presentation, project organization and effort all mean absolutely nothing, then there's no reason for me to spend my time participating at all. Just put out the announcements with the same sort of provisions as Community Development Block Grants, then I can save myself a bunch of time and effort by having proof that we're rejected before we start. By the way...if you're truly poor enough to know that you were a lock as you say, you're probably eligible under the CDBG program and could have gone that route, leaving your money for someone else...but that's another post...

            I'm done venting now. For me, this whole program has been nothing but an aggravating delay in a project that we always knew would have to go forward just as it would have without the FIRE Act ever being signed.

            At least we won't have to waste time submitting crap to NFIRS.

            Comment


            • #7
              “Do you have a letter in hand stating this??”

              Of course.

              "And received and called first to verify. If so, why haven't they simply put out a press release telling us that the letters have gone out??”

              Beats me I don’t work for them, but look for the public announcement next week.

              “ I have a funding project on hold with my municipality, pending our FIRE Act grant rejection from FEMA. We know we have no chance of getting a grant for a Quint, but needed to "spin the grant wheel" for political reasons.”

              You intentionally asked for something you knew they wouldn’t fund. I don’t get it. Integrity issues would not allow us to do that to our elected officials or public.

              >> We spent 2 hours on the application at the last minute and pretty much figured we get funded fully and did.
              “If stories like this are true, I'm writiung the next one on toilet paper and sending it in a box full of dog s**t.”

              There is always a sorry sport, who doesn’t follow the rules, asks for something that is prohibited and then complains. We followed the rules, the forms were quite easy to fill out and the cover letter was the key.

              “ If this is strictly a fire-welfare program and presentation, project organization and effort all mean absolutely nothing, then there's no reason for me to spend my time participating at all.”

              So does you department or ours have a greater need? You said you had a funding program. Mohnton, PA has a fire department budget, has existed since 1914, has a population10 times larger than ours with the same number of volunteers. You even have a social club building. We don’t even have a fire station. You cover One POINT five square miles we cover 1000. We commonly have fires bigger than your entire coverage area. You own a 1980 quint and are looking for another when the fire grant rules were clear, they don’t do quints. Our newest rig is a 1958 and it is on loan for our use. Your mutual aid is a couple miles away and ours is 41 to 74 miles to get one fire truck. You own three trucks we own zero!

              “ Community Development Block Grants”

              We just got notification of our CDBG too, to the tune of 1.5 million bucks. Our neighbor just got a pumper tanker too. Just fill out the forms correctly and stay in the rules.

              “we're rejected before we start.”

              Well if a grant says you can’t get a quint and you ask for a quint, then you will be rejected before you fill out the paperwork.

              “ By the way...if you're truly poor enough to know that you were a lock as you say,”

              1958 pumper always beats a 1980 replacement don’t you think? We have the oldest first out pumper anywhere near us. Our neighbors second out is a 1931 41 horse power open cab rig, but they didn’t apply. So yeah we know what our need was. Your 3300 people own the land and can tax each other. The feds own 85% of our land and we cannot tax them.
              “you're probably eligible under the CDBG
              program and could have gone that route,”

              We did and got that too. I’m sure you could apply too.

              “ leaving your money for someone else”

              Or use the CDBG money for something else?

              “this whole program has been nothing but an aggravating delay in a project that we always knew would have to go forward just as it would have without the FIRE Act ever being signed.”

              Next time read the rules BEFORE out fill out the paperwork. You don’t need to attack us, we just filled out the paperwork at the last minute, sent it in and followed the rules.

              Here is OUR FEMA FIRE GRANT COVER LETTER post yours, lets compare need

              To Whom It May Concern,

              The KVFD is a township board managed organization. It is comprised of an authorized strength of 20 members, serving a town of @330 people and a rural county population of @170 people, spread over 78 square miles in rural Lander County Nevada. Our population is made up of hard working miners, ranchers, current and retired
              military and civilian contractors who spent their careers in the deserts of north central Nevada supporting weapons programs. Our town is a military training target with up to 200 sonic booms a day are allowed by fighter planes under current government rules. Most people live in mobile homes
              or houses. We have 9 commercial buildings in town. We are in the middle of an extreme wildland interface zone.

              The fire department is the closest responder for fighting fires, protecting structures, military plane crashes, auto extrication and EMS services in the area between our closest neighbors to the north west 27 miles but they won’t leave town, 74 miles to the north east, and 41 miles to the south, a whopping mid point coverage area of 1,000 square miles of Lander, Eureka, and Nye Counties. That is an area half the size of the state of New York. Our 5,621 square mile county only has 3 fire departments. Our closest county tanker for mutual aid is over 115 miles away. The average ambulance run is 175 miles each way or six and a half hours with an all volunteer staff.

              The federal government owns 85% of that response area but provides minimal seasonal initial response to wildland fires only. Their closest unit is 27 miles away when not fighting another fire. There back up is 90 and 137 miles away. So structure responsibility falls to us. For the first hour or more of any event we are pretty much on our own. In the heavy snows of winter the roads over the mountain passes can close and no help is available.

              During the summer of 1999 and 2000 our 4 county area had 4 of the 10 largest fires in the U.S. Two of the fires last year resulted in wildland firefighter deaths. Just one fire that we responded to was 300,000 acres in size. At any given time the last two years dozens of fires have burned simultaneously. We’ve seen another town our size in the area 50% destroyed by fire.

              We operate on $0 to $2500 a year, with an average of about $2000. Most of that money is used to provide EMS services to our area. We have on loan a 150 gallon skid in the back of an old pickup truck for brush fires with freeze damage. We have a military fuel truck that was given to us after it rolled and is heavily damaged to haul water also with freeze damage. The fire department runs a LOANED 1958 LN Curtis pumper with a 500 gallon water tank and pump. It will soon be taken from us by its owner and go into museum service. The pump is barely operational. The pump manufacturer no longer makes the pump and parts are impossible to acquire. We will try to borrow another vehicle but have
              not been lucky finding anything that will hold water or draft.

              We have built, purchased, begged, borrowed and stolen every piece of fire equipment on the apparatus. None of our protective clothing, breathing apparatus or fire equipment meets any kind of standards. We use what we use at great personal risk. Our fairly young fire chief died unexpectedly last year and was the township water system mechanic. Under his leadership we were able to add 11 fire hydrants. Our ISO rating is a Class 10 unprotected.

              With a Class 10 most homeowners cannot get replacement fire insurance or pay drunk driver type rates. Without insurance most people cannot get a home or mobile home loan. Extremely high insurance that is available doesn’t allow many to qualify for a mortgage.

              If you find us worthy to receive this funding we have a plan to copy what our neighbors have accomplished in attaining the best ISO ratings in the US for rural departments. We are asking for help with a used fire truck, hopefully with an automatic transmission (our current manual transmission limits the people able to safely drive it in our mountainous environment), with a 1500 gallon water tank and a 1250 gpm pump. It needs to hold 2400
              feet of 4 inch hose. In addition we are asking for used standards compliant equipment and hose to match the ISO equipment compliment for engine and
              ladder service. We believe we can purchase the apparatus and all the equipment for the $100,000 we are asking for but we’d make do with any contribution to public safety and any advice to do a better job.

              What we would do with that used vehicle is challenge our ISO rating. Our pre-audit with ISO a couple months ago is the basis of what we are asking for and suggests the following. Just owning the vehicle would allow a Class 9. Its arrival would immediately allow the average homeowner to save $178 on their fire insurance each year. The used pumper we are requesting with its 1500 gallon water tank in conjunction with our damaged tanker would allow an ISO Dwelling 8 challenge to save an additional $130 to $360 savings.

              The worst we could do is save everyone $309 to $538 a year and have a more dependable fire service.

              We will expand the number of draft points in our district so 2400 feet of hose will reach every structure. Within a month of receiving the vehicle we will demonstrate our hose lay and drafting ability to ISO. Our highest fire flow is 1250 gpm according to ISO. That is why 1250 pumper is requested and 4 inch hose is critical to match the 500 and 750 residential fire flows of our community and so the math makes sense to ISO. A Class 5 is possible district wide with a properly equipped vehicle. Homeowners would save an additional $119 to $370 a year. All told we can save homeowners $428 to $908 a year every year for the next 15 years. Businesses will save 11.8% a year at a Class 9, 21.1% at a Class 8 and 65.3% at a Class 5. The average yearly savings will be $975 per home or 2.3 million dollars over the rating period.

              In addition, once we’ve got the go ahead from USFA, we will approach our Town Board with a proposed $1 a month water bill increase to cover the cost of maintenance, operation and station expansion. A private citizen will pay the match to our grant. Our commitment to do the right thing is so high we will return the fire truck and equipment to the government this year if we can’t do what we propose.

              We are good neighbors, and when asked to help, we go and ask questions later. Your grant would allow us to fulfill the progressive plans of our late chief. If the federal government is looking for a community who can demonstrate a need for help and promise to show a quantifiable savings to the citizens, this is the department to help!

              Comment


              • #8
                Just out of curiosity, I thought that if a department received help from the Feds, they weren't eligible to receive a grant. Maybe I misunderstood the rules. If the above is correct, then how did ccfire's department receive grant money? If I am wrong and I did misunderstand some fine print, then I apologize.
                JMK271
                These opinions are my own and not those of the department in which I serve.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So far I haven't heard anything from FEMA one way or the other. But I am a little upset at the new math they're using at FEMA While I was making sure all my I's were dotted and my T's crossed, I remember seeing a part about being able to provide info that would show you could match the 10% or 30% required by your dept. I saw on Firehouse.com today that a dept. in Texas got a grant for $99,000 and the Chief say his budget was only $8,000/yr. and that came from fund raising. Maybe my math isn't that good but I seem to remember that 10% of 99,000 is 9,900 Is this a new kind of math being used by FEMA? Our budget is half of theirs and that played a major role in preparing the application. We had to decide what we could ask for without going over our abilities to match the 10%. So the majority of our request was for PPE to outfit firefighter's with gear for the first time. Blue jeans and Nike's don't meet NFPA regs. that I know of.
                  By saying that his budget comes from fundraisers, what kind of a promise to repay is that? My banker wouldn't go for that!!! A lot of depts. out there need a lot of things badly. But this Case in Nome TX sure sounds a lot like greed and they got away with it.
                  This is just my opinion and does in no way reflect the views of everyone in this dept.
                  sigpic
                  "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We got our second notification of our second FEMA grant for loose equipment to go along with the fire truck they gave us earlier.

                    We've got maybe 5 hours inested to get the two grants. We explained the need, what we were going to do with it and the way we would prove results from the grant dollars.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I love the concept that FEMA has adopted in punishing the companies that have attempted to comply with OSHA regulations by disqualifying them for being "too compliant"
                      The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sounds to me like the KVFD has a lot of pride. I think that they are among the departments that the Fire Act was established for. Lots of responsibilty and zero resources. Way to go brothers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The 10% or 30% matching funds do not have to come out of a FD's budget. The money can be from other grants, loans, fund raisers, donations, etc.

                          It is unfortunate that the departments that really need the help may never be able to come up with even 10% matching funds.

                          I have been working with a group called Helping Our Own to coordinate equipment donations to poor rural FD's. They have a list of 4,000 FD's with budgets below $10,000 a year. Helping Our Own

                          [ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Ken Hanks ]
                          -------------------
                          "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
                          -----------------------------------------------
                          Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

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                          • #14
                            Don't worry about unfortunate Fd's theay used to doing the impossible.

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