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Who still uses 3.5" supply lines

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  • zedlav
    replied
    My department uses LDH as a primary supply hose, but many of our neihboring departments use 3 inch or 3.5 inch hose for supply. We have to know how to figure friction loss if we respond to a mutual aid fire. Since we use the 2Q2+Q formula, we have to use a conversion factor based on FL of 100 feet of 2.5 inch hose.

    The conversion factors are as follows,

    2.5= 1 or 100%
    3.0 with 3.0 couplings= .40 or 40%
    3.0 with 2.5 couplings= .38 or 38%
    3.5= .20
    4.0= .10
    4.5= .05
    5.0= .03
    6.0= .01

    hope this helps.



    null

    Leave a comment:


  • T. BARRECA, JR
    replied
    We use it for supply much like R1SmokeEater's Dept. We have 2 lines set up to come off the engine to tie into the hydrant.

    We have not seen any problems with this set up as a supply line.

    We even use this setup as supply to our 55' stick with 1000 gpm pump, once again no problem.

    The only problem you may encounter may be long lays from a hydrant. Thank god we don't have that problem.


    Stay low - Be cool

    Leave a comment:


  • R1SmokeEater
    replied
    My job still uses 3.5 supply hose. SOP is foward stretch from hydrant wrapping TWO 3.5" supply lines. Engine Co.s carry two bays of 15-lengths each of 3.5" (30 length total)for hydrant supply line, or to supply TL's or Stangs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double_Local
    replied
    We Currently use 800' 3"(2.5" coupling) on a Humat valve in one bed and 800' 4" in the second bed. The guys are loath to touch the 4" so it rarely gets used. We have four engines on the dispatch, 3rd & 4th pick up 1st and 2nd. Our SOPS are to use the 4" for Heavy Duty operatiosn.

    Our 4" is a mix (throughout the dept) of rubber covered and double jacketed.

    Rumors are that the 4" is more likely to get caught in the duals of apparatus, whereas teh 3" is too small...though I've only seen 3" get caught, due to the fact that it's the only one on the ground usually.

    Leave a comment:


  • 911WACKER
    replied
    jmk271- I would like to give you some food for thought, This is not at all intended to be a bashing, here it goes.

    1. If you lack pressure the larger your supply line the more water you will get to use at the fire.(less friction loss means more gpm's delivered at same pressure)

    2. One of our nieghboring companies has a awsome hydrant system and fought for several years to get ldh to replace the dual 2.5 lines. All it took was showing the powers that be how it works.

    So if you please some night invite down a engine that carries ldh and lay it next to your 3" and compare, I promise you that you won't be disapointed. STAY SAFE!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • John_Ford
    replied
    Originally posted by Double_Local:
    Anyone know the FL #s for 3.5? How about the couplings? Are they 3" threaded or 3.5" storz? or other.

    Is it double jacketed?

    Can you drive over it with relative ease?
    FL per 100' is 9.5 PSI for 500 gpm
    18 PSI for 700 gpm
    34 PSI for 1000 gpm

    I think the Q factor is .5 gpm Squared.

    LA City uses it, Philly used Ta until they went to 3" and 5". It was the largest supply used until 4" and 5" made their way over from Europe. Heavy as a bastard though but a lot tougher then LDH as it is traditional construction and can be pumped at the higher pressure. Luck to ya.

    Leave a comment:


  • jmk271
    replied
    We use 3 inch for our supply. The water system in our town s not good enough for anything bigger than that. As a matter of fact, anytime we run a fire on the south side of town, our tanker is dispatched. The biggest problem we have is that the towns' water tower is located on the north end of town, thus making it difficult for good water pressure from a hydrant on the south side. It all works out in the end though, south side fires are just fought with whatever we can achieve from a hydrant, and from a tanker shuttle.

    Leave a comment:


  • choad33
    replied
    The 3.5" hose we use has 3.5" couplings on it. We ususally drop two lines into the fire one off the 2.5" butt and the other off of a hydrant assist valve. average hose lay is about 400 feet. Most of the younger guys want to ditch the stuff for a single 5", I happen to aggree with them. Having used 4" and 5" in other departments I like it better. If the dual lines are not enough we have to bring in another engine to pump the line.

    Leave a comment:


  • GBordas
    replied
    The rule of thumb in any size line is "not to exceed 250psi" (Atleast that's what we're taught.)

    The 3-1/2-inch supply has 3-inch, sometimes 2-1/2inch threaded couplings.

    You're really not supposed to drive over charged hoselines if at all possible but I would imagine that it is easier than the larger diameter hose(such as 4 and 5-inch) due to it being smaller.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double_Local
    replied
    Anyone know the FL #s for 3.5? How about the couplings? Are they 3" threaded or 3.5" storz? or other.

    Is it double jacketed?

    Can you drive over it with relative ease?

    Leave a comment:


  • BIG PAULIE
    replied
    GBorda, Thanx for the info

    Leave a comment:


  • GBordas
    replied
    BIG PAULIE,

    3-1/2" hose is a supply hose. The common practice for stretches is the Back Stretch or "reverse lay" to a fire. Typically the ECC (Engine Company Chauffer) will pull past the fire building (to allow room for the 1st due truck company to take the front of the fire building) and proceed to the nearest working hydrant. The attack hose is pulled off the back and the ECC will hook into the hydrant. He will then wait for the order from the ECO (Engine Company Officer) to send water. We do not use a forward lay. We do however will use ILP (In-Line Pumping) if the first due engine couldn't make the connection to a hydrant.

    Leave a comment:


  • BIG PAULIE
    replied
    GBordas. Just curious. Itb sounds like what you are saying is that the 3-1/2" hose is used for discharge lines based on what you said. It also sounds like the FDNY reverses to the hydrant and pumps to the fire. Is this correct?

    Leave a comment:


  • GBordas
    replied
    We Do!

    The FDNY primarily uses 3-1/2" line for ILP (In-Line Pumping), Standpipe/Sprinker connections, feeding Tower Ladders and for feeding major appliances that require LCS (Large Caliber Streams) such as portable monitors.

    For hydrant connections we also carry a 35' length of 5" soft sleeve hose, 10' 3-1/2" of semi-rigid and a 10' section of rigid or hard suction hose for drafting but it's rarely used for a hydrant connection.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. Faull
    replied
    Our dept has used 3.5 for many years. We have never had a problem with water suppy. Last month we purchased 200' of large diameter.

    Leave a comment:

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