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  • First Reponder Abuse????

    My volunteer department runs medical assist with ems, but recently members have complained that we unload the cot, lift the patient to the cot, put the cot in the ambulance, and wave good bye. Not a lot of training needed for that. This has caused very low turn out for any first reponder runs. Any suggestions??????

  • #2
    My department also runs a first responder program to supplement the county EMS units, so I can understand where you are coming from. However complaining can go both ways. It seems to me like most of our calls fall into one of the following categories:
    1) the ambulance is arriving the same time we do...
    or
    2) the ambulance takes forever and a day to get there

    The last few days has seemed more like #2 was the case. I know I would like it better if we could load the patient and go sometimes instead of sitting there in their house after you have taken every possible vital sign twice, maybe give them a little o2, have asked every question you can think of and the ambulance is still 7 or 8 minutes away. That can be just as bad of a pain in the *** as feeling like the EMS crew's gopher.
    But all I can say really is this, you are ther to help....so look at it this way, If you just help load the cot, you are getting them on the road to the hospital that much quicker. And if I was hurtin', the faster you get me there the happier I am....

    pat

    [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: fireeater650 ]

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    • #3
      I'm sorry, I'm kind of confused. Are you getting there before, at the same time, or just after the ambulance on most of these calls? If it's before then you should have a report to give the ambulance crew. Are they ignoring it? If it's the same time or after then I take they don't let your guys do anything after they get on scene. The only legitimate reason I can think for not utilizing you is if you don't work together much and they don't know what your people are capable of. If this isn't it, then I think you should have a sit down with the leadership of the ambulance service and discuss the matter with them. Like you said, not much use you guys going if all you're going to be allowed to do is go'fer. I think you need to state this matter to them as a patient care issue, to me, the more hands (up to a point) you have working on a patient, the less time it takes on scene to accomplish what's needed. God bless and stay safe.
      Randall E. Guntrum FF/EMT
      If lights, sirens, and air horns do not attract the attention of a driver, he or she is too drunk to be assisted by a paint scheme.

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      • #4
        Big,

        I can understand your members frustrations, but if you are arriving at the same time with the ambulance, the it a little less exciting for your memebers. I think fireeater has a point that can be stressed to your members that the fact that patient care is not being jeopardize but lengtly on-scene time. I do have a couple questions myself.
        1. How long have you provided FR service?
        2. How/When do you provide it?
        3. Was it a mutual agreement between your dept. and the EMS service?

        I think that one thing to keep in mind is sometimes as firefighters, we all have the urge to get involved. And often in EMS there isn't something for everyone to do. The only advice I can offer is try to get your members a little more aggressive. Or if you can sacrifice the personnel, (I don't know how your system works), arrange an agreement where some of your personnel can ride in the ambulance to the ER. This will allow your FR's/EMT's to work more with the EMS crews and keep their hands in the mix. I often ran into the same types of situations when I was on a BLS Engine, and there are many personalities that look at the FD as being their muscles and slave labor to patient movement. However, I also learned that every bit of help is important, and if continues to be to big of a problem, don't hang around any longer then you have to. In today's world of ALS, there isn't much for a FR to do other then be in a supportive role to the paramedic and overall patient care.

        ===========================================
        The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

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        • #5
          Thanks for the input. We usually arrive at the same time or slightly after the ambulance. WE have been BLS non-transport for about two years. WE provide assistance 24/7. We DO NOT have a written mutual aid agreement, they call we go.

          I appreciate the suggestions and will pass them along to my department

          Stay safe!!!

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          • #6
            BIGFIRE; I'm just two counties south of you. We are 20 minutes from the ambulance service station and we always arrive first (if properly notified) to medical scenes. Our relationship with the ambulance crews has recently improved greatly. They have a new boss. Get Robinson over at the PD to help carry the cot.

            [ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: DD ]

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            • #7
              EMS is slowly becoming more of a problem, when it comes to membership turnout. Whether or not the guys on the bus say it or not, i'm sure they appreciate the help you give them with the physical aspect of moving the patient.

              If your company doesn't provide transport type care, this may be one of the only ways of helping out at aided cases.
              May God bless all the people and families who have lost
              their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

              "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

              FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

              e-mail always accepted @
              [email protected]

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              • #8
                My department runs First Responder calls with our local ambulance service which is located about 5-7 minutes from our station. We have had some of our members decide not to respond to our medical calls, which is fine by me. If you want to help, then show up when the page comes in. We are a volunteer department and about 50-75% of our calls are EMS calls. This has helped keep our members active and eager to become more involved with the department. We sometimes beat the ambulance and other times the ambulance beats us. In my opinion we have a good relationship with the ambulance service and we most often assist the paramedics during some of the worst calls.

                NOTE:This is my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of my Fire Department
                48237158

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                • #9
                  I am employed w/ a combo dept. We (the paid staff) Are almost always 1st on scene. we establish Pt contact and obtain vital signs ect.... for the medics. We run on a box ambulance. The volunteers are toned out for an engine company. We try to incorporate there help, but you cant realistically relinquish your pt after establishing contact. So they usuall end up returning to Qtrs w/out doing anything. BUT... They make 7 bucks per alarm so they come out and play. Some times They are really needed and we are grateful that their there. Thats the nature of the beast. Tell your people that it really does help to get the gurney.
                  ITS ALL IN THE ATTITUDE! [img]null[/img]

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