Speed and Red Light Camera Scam

[truck197]

A new government report shows redlight and photoradar cameras are designed to entrap drivers to get revenue. 300 drivers in San Diego sued the city, and they obtained confidential documents proving the city rigs the system to get millions in revenue. You can see the report at http://www.freedom.gov/auto/
There are claims by those in favor of these cameras that they increase safety, but I dont think so. I have never been to an MVA and said "A redlight camera would have prevented this." I blame the majority of accidents on stupidity, recklessnes and a host of other human defects.
I know that there are many issues that arrise with this debate ('big brother,' constitutional), the one I am most curious about is the saftey issue.
Thanks for your input,
Jeff

[mongofire_99]

I blame the majority of accidents on stupidity, recklessnes and a host of other human defects.

Stupidity?

Recklessness?

Human Defects?

What kind of American are you?

Don't you know that no one is responsible for their own actions except people that think that everyone is responsible for their own actions.

Have you been hiding under a rock?

the one I am most curious about is the saftey issue.

Need more data. They have a report that shows less accidents with longer yellows, let's see the report from the red light operators that show less accidents from the cameras - if there is one.

[SFD13]

I find it funny when people complain about photo radar and red light cameras.

Gee, if you don't speed excessively or run red lights you won't be fined.

If you want to endanger others then be prepared to take responsibility for your actions and suffer the consequences.

People tend to blame everybody else. "Daddy didn't let me have a puppy when I was four, thats why I can't be held reponsible for speeding and running red lights" GIVE ME A BREAK!

Sorry for ranting!

[Dalmatian90]

5. What safety benefits do red light cameras provide? They've been shown to reduce red light violations and intersection crashes. A recent Institute study of a program in Oxnard, California, shows that red light running violations dropped a total of 42 percent after cameras were introduced at nine intersections, which includes a similar decline at intersections that weren't equipped with them. Another study showed violations declined about 40 percent in Fairfax, Virginia after one year of camera enforcement. Victoria, Australia, began using red light cameras at traffic signal intersections in 1983 and posted signs alerting motorists of their presence. A subsequent report by the Road Traffic Authority found a 32 percent decrease in right-angle collisions and a 10 percent reduction in injuries after the cameras were installed. http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/qanda/rlc.htm#5

Ya know an awful lot of people speed.
If we raise the speed limit, fewer people will speed.

[nomad1085]

I think the point of the "red light" cameras is to catch people running red lights. What is the problem with that? If you make a habit of running red lights, you deserve to be caught and punished. What is the differnece between a marked unit sitting there watching the intersection from a parking lot nearby or a camera on the wire watching for the same thing? The way I see it, if you don't run the lights all the time, you won't have a problem? What is the big deal.

When they say "improve safety", I think they mean that if the usual jerks who make a habit of running the lights know they WILL get caught, they will not do it anymore, therefore, the intersections would be safer. Again, I think this is a really good idea. They wouldn't run the light if they saw a marked unit sitting there watching. Now there is a camera instead of a marked unit. Whats the difference?

Now, people that complain about a red light camera have one of two problems, or both:

1. You probably complain about everything else having to do with authority

2. You are a jerk and like running red lights

I still don't see what the problem is?

[Will24]

I think the big deal is people going through yellows getting ticketed, re-read the first statement

[Dalmatian90]

If you don't have enough time to clear the intersection, don't enter on yellow.

Then you don't get a ticket.

If your too stupid to understand, reckless to care, or have another defect that makes you unable to comprehend yellow is warning you it will soon turn red, so don't enter if you can't clear, you deserve the ticket.

While there is potential for abuse, I suspect that most people are grasping at straws.

After all what's the difference between a cop and a camera? Camera costs $50,000 and a few thousand a year to run, covering the intersection 24x7. Cop costs $75-100,000 a year or more between salary, benifits, cruiser, training, etc -- for only 40 hours a week when not on training, vacation, or out sick.

Camera catches offenders who speed and run red lights. Does so quite cost effectively. I also figure it's a lot less intrusive on law-biding folks than DWI roadblocks.

We're way to lenient on traffic violations in this country -- and way to much into believing a driver's license is a right and not a privelege. Many of the offenses that might bring a few months suspension and few hundred dollars in fines in the US in England brings a few YEARS suspension and a few THOUSAND dollar fine -- damn well suspect you don't try to do it a second time after those penalties!

[LACAPT]

Red light infraction cameras do work, no doubt about it, and where do the majority of the stupid "I thought I had enough time" accidents occur. You guessed it, intersections. As for radar, try living up here in the great white north in Edmonton Alberta Canada where the cash cow pulled in 12 million in 2000. Does it slow people down? NOT. We are not assesed any demerit points on our licences so people pay the fine and go on their merry way usualy 10-20 over the speed limit I might add. Up here it definitly is nothing but a tax to the driving public, to the folks that say if you dont speed you wont get caught, true enough but the bottom line is that it does not slow people down nor prevent accidents, and the facts speak for themselves.

[DocLaw]

Two cents

Okay, about everything everybody else has said has a some merit to it.

However, to call the red-light cameras a scam is wrong. It is not a scam. Cops cannot be everywhere. I know, I was one, and I just could not take that whole donut shop with me so I could be everywhere! Properly set up and maintained, those camera systems work. They are also great for railroad crossings, too.

Having been a police officer, then a prosecutor for about 17 years total, I can tell you that at about every stoplight intersection accident I handled or prosecuted one driver was running the red light big time. Stupid, yes, reckless, oh yeah. How do you nail them without being there in person? Use those cameras!

So what if the camera just also happens to raise some $$$. Maybe they can hire a new officer or two with that increased revenue.

A Chicago suburb experimented with motorcycle patrols a few years back. They put on two motor officers. In three months, they collected enough in tickets to pay for a third officer, his training, and his motor.

Cameras at intersections, I support them. Might just make some of our work a little less messy with them there than without.

(Pontifically speaking from a county with only two red-yellow-green stop lights in the entire county)

From where the 20th Century is still a few years away, Dr. Law.

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Dr. Law ]

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

It looks like truck197 got caught by one of the aforementioned cameras and is looking for a place to vent!

[SFD-129-3]

Heck, I wish my township used them!! We are on a busy 5 lane highway with 3 lights within 3/4 of a mile. Needless to say, speeding and light running keep my department busy. Personally, I don't feel safe even with the green in my favor. Too many times I have seen the green, let up on the brake and went to pull out only to have to stop for some moron blowing the light at 60+! I live in PA, not jersey where the "Two through on red rule" is in effect.

[FGFD43]

Do you think that if we start carrying a camera in our engines and squads and take pictures of the idiots that do not yield the right of way to us maybe we can raise some money too?

[BucksEng91]

You know, this is such a great idea! Why don't we extend it?

There are a lot of problems with drugs in North Philadelphia, for example. Let's put cameras up on every streetcorner and midblock, so we can catch those dastardly drug dealers. What's that? How can we be sure that the person who is seen on camera at 3 PM selling drugs is the same one we swoop down on and arrest at 9 PM? Well, hell, all those drug dealers look the same anyway, right? Even if we make a little mistake, hell, it's just one more worthless drug dealer. It all works out in the end, right?

I understand that shoplifting is a concern to many retailers, and rightfully so. Many of these incidents are traced to people stowing things in their bag (or on their person if a bag is not permitted) while in the dressing room. Let's put cameras in the dressing rooms so we can stem this heinous crime wave! What's that you say? You don't want someone looking at your pin while you try on your new BVDs? Well, son, that's the price we have to pay to get RID of crime. You're not supporting CRIME, now, are you?

Hey, you know what? Declining productivity is a problem here in these ol' United States. Employers just aren't getting the full 8 hours work for eight hours pay, dammit! So let's put a camera over everyone's work area, in the hallways, and in the bathroom stalls. That way, we can be sure that people are working for a full 8. Or, failing that, we can at least DOCK them for the extra time they spend wiping themselves, or when they arrive a minute late at their desk. Or if they linger too long at the soda machine. Or, if they pick their nose when they should be working!!

Ooo, ooo! Here's another way we can use technology! Let's set up radar on every inch of the interstate, with little ID doohickeys on every car we make (and retrofitted to those already on the road), like those "EZ Pass" stickers. Then, if you go over 55 MPH for even one second, we can make sure you'll get a big, fat speeding ticket. 'Cause we all know that no safe, law-abiding American ever drives over 55 on the interstate. Hey, this is all in the name of SAFETY, people!!!

Heyyyyy!!! I just had another brainstorm!!! Why don't we make PEOPLE wear EZ Pass ID stickers, so the police always know where we are? See, that way, if we get lost, we can just call OnStar or something and have them direct us. Or, if our car breaks down in the middle of the Mohave Desert, right, they can send people to rescue us! Or, if we happen to cross a street not at an intersection, the police can write us a jaywalking ticket! Or, if we bike on the wrong side of the road, the police can come and confiscate our bicycles (it's for our own good, trust me!).

Am I making my point, or should I go on with this stupidity? I could do this all day.

When Americans begin to give up their individual rights to freedom, privacy, and protection from the electronic eye of the state, it's the beginning of the end, my friends. Pretty soon, we won't even have to get out of bed. Mother Government will take care of everything for us, and make sure we don't do anything that might get us hurt. Doesn't that sound nice?



[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: BucksEng91 ]

[Chief79]

I agree with Bucks engine. You know they already put little computer chips in the teeth of children if you want. This is so the coroner can more easily identify them. We put a curfew on ALL teens. Students having to wear uniforms is becoming a big hit. In Texas one legislator even suggested all students would have to serve community service before they could graduate (luckily this did not pass). Graduated drivers licenses for every one under the age of 18. Lets see, tell them when they have to be home, what to wear, work for the community for free, let them drive only at certain hours and in certain places,... Got to love this free country we live in. Lets give up some more of our freedoms in the name of crime prevention!

[jizumper-5]

Easy now, we should probably stay on topic. I see that Dalmatian90 has found some actual data to support his opinion what seems to answer truck197's question on increasing safety.

As for me, if it truly will reduce accidents then that is good. If not, the to the can with it.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: jizumper-5 ]