responding to universities

[glowpop]

Yo Jim,
Ya tried the honey, time for the vinegar.

Suggest you get all your firehouse buddies and post those big red fire trucks just outside the gates to the University this weekend when all the new freshmen get there. Hand out the following note:

Dear Mom and Dad:
The administration of this University does not think that much of your young daughter or son. They have been unwilling to spend $100.00 per year to train the Public Safety personnel on campus to use fire extinguishers or provide them with personal protective gear.

The administration also believes that reporting fires and alarms to the local fire department is not in the interests of your children.

We at the fire department think differently, but we have not been able to change the opinions of those in office. We therefore cannot guarentee the safety of your son/daughter.

Sincerely yours,
FD Guys.

Think that would do it?

Just my two cents worth and that won't even buy one.

[DaFAO]

Hrm...
Can I say to the guy from Ann Arbor that those maize and blue fire engines look better painted SCARLET AND GREY...

Now- the topic at hand...
Consider this...

A university to the east of Columbus did a pretty cool thing.

With this year's freshman class, during the freshman orientation/party, they simulated a smoke condition in one of the larger dorms (Division I school, about 15,000 students) to have them understand what to do in the event of an emergency. The local fire department, mutual aid departments, police dept, sherriff's office and campus public safety (law only, not EMS or Fire) were all there so they could also pre-plan and coordinate their efforts for an incident like this...We had a bad campus fire in the norhtern part of the state last winter (Engine 69: remember Heidelberg?), so we're kinda parnoid, now, I suppose, but never too sure, right?

Is this something universities and the relevant angencies could work together on?

Just a thought- Could it work?

[JimBeutel22]

Now, I'm not saying this University is in bedrock when it comes to fire safety, just that training is needed. We were the first university in NJ to have all its residence halls sprinklered, and we were done BEFORE the governor signed the bil making it a law. We also have 3 people dedicated to fire prevention, 2 of them (myself included) inspecting each building monthly to have fire code violations and other unsafe conditions repaired promptly. This has allowed us to go from over 500 written code violations in 2000 to about 100-150 for 2001, so we are pretty proactive. We provide fire safety presentations to various groups on campus constantly (using clips from "How Fast it Burned" and other videos to make our point). We have prohibited halogen lamps and candles in residence halls, and are working on making it campuswide.

Security investigating alarms prior to dispatching the fire company is not necessarily bad. We had a dorm fire in February, security investigated, had the fire dept. called, and the first due was still on scene in 6 minutes. The sprinkler held that fire in check. Prior investigation helps keep the fire dept. need to come out for "no emergency alarms", and prevents firefighter burnout. I know I'd start to tap and roll over if I heard the same call go out night after night....

My biggest problem is getting on the training schedule in department to giove the security officers the knowledge they may need to keep them out of danger. Even with the training, I'd still rather them not handle fires without proper equipment (ie. turnout gear).

It's nice to see all the interest in university safety, especially since all the little kiddies are getting ready to come back....

[CollegeBuff]

Jim- I hear that, bro.


Any fire alarm in one of the unsprinkled dorms on my campus (yes, we have them -_-) drops the hammer at Worcester Fire. 3-4 minutes later Engine 9 is rolling through the gate, with the entire Grove St. station about 2 minutes or less behind, and the entire Central St. station another 3 or so out. It's pretty impressive to see them all (9, 3, 16, 1, Ladders 2 and 1, Rescue 1, Car 3) parked outside a dorm at night.

Resident Assistants (that's me) and Campus Police) will try to determine what the problem is- pull station, discharged extinguisher, burnt food, etc. If we can nail it down to an obvious non-fire origin, we can usually have WFD notified and the rest of the assignment cancelled as the 9's are pulling up to the building.

RA's are given a 5-minute or less talk on extinguisher use, with the reminder to not be heroes. Don't know the training situation on the cops.

As for regulations, as of this year any unlit candle found in a room gets the resident 8 weeks of deferred (sneeze loudly and yer out) housing. Lit candle is minumum of one semester suspended from residence. (in a school where 85% of the student body of all class levels live on campus, this is a big deal). Same rules apply for any disconnected smoke detector (apparently a problem in the rooms of smokers- all kinds )

[Diane E]

Relevent to the topic......An article on sprinkling dorms in New York.....
www.news12.com/CDA/Articles/View/0,2049,5-5-18732-20,00.html

[RRR]

I'm a volunteer firefighter and a student in a relatively small university town (returned to school, I'm age 26, and have been a f/f for 8 years). The university and its security in particular, urges students, especially students living in residence, to call them first for emergencies and not 911.

I haven't listened to them myself but other firefighters have heard security on the scanner saying they are going to check out an alarm or smoke condition, and then you can hear them report back. Checking out a call can mean going all the way across campus and into a building which does take a while.

Just in the last year there have been three fires on campus, two of which were in residence but luckily they were very minor.

I think if security can get to a location of a call before us that is good, and if conditions permit them to safely put out a small fire with an extinguisher that is good.

My concern is the delay in us getting called----they normally don't call the fire dept. until they have checked things out first which could spell disaster. Pardon the pun but I think the university is playing with fire by not calling us right away.

**** I have gone to many calls at the university and students I know comment to me about how slow we were getting there. I then explain to them the time delay caused by not calling 911 and security waiting to call us.

I'm not sure if the university doesn't want to look bad or unsafe by having fire trucks there or what the story is. I do know that if we went to all the calls at the university our call volume would almost be getting to high for the current structure of the department---but to me the students safety should be first before all else---if we needed to become paid per call or have a day staff then that is what would be needed.

People, in this case the university, and most students, don't seem to care or worry about things until after a disaster then everyone starts to point fingers---then things change but too late---and the money does surface (e.g. money for paid staff or paid per call to make sure enough turn out to the possible false alarms).

[WagonBoy19]

Kyle,
Your problem is far from unique. I ran in a town that had a college and on many occasions security took situations into their own hands. Alarm Bells and other situatuions were handled by them along with various EMS calls and such. Alarms didn't bother me as much due to the fact there were about 5-10 false alarms there a week- anything else such as smoke condiditions and smells of things burning greatly concern me along with them transporting EMS patients in certain situations. Unfortunatly thats an issue for your chief to address with the college adminstration because in the end, its the college who is going to be fully responsable.

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Ross Johnson ]

[jizumper-5]

Collegian News Report

Fire at university lab

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: jizumper-5 ]

[jizumper-5]

OK previous post is a related story of a recent fire in a university lab. Once the department website is repaired, a better article will be there. This is an example of a somewhat good relationship between fire department and university.

[daysleeper47]

Well, sure seems like my college isn't much different from most. Here at John Carroll, we are filled with fun, fire-related hazards. Of our 8 dorms, only 1 that I know of, and possibly the two-newer upperclassman dorms, so 3, are sprinklered. If any of the non-sprinklered dorms were to become sprinklered, it would cost the university millions of dollars. Most of the buildings are 25-75 years old, going back to the founding of the school and of concrete block construction. We do however have fire alarms, but they do not notify the University Heights Fire Department upon being pulled. If the alarm is not pulled, but rather, the incident is called in, university procedure is to have JCU CSS(Campus Safety Services, our university PD) called first, where they will authenticate the alarm and then call 911 from there. This is procedure for both fire and medical unless someone of some authority has decided the situation warrants a 911 call first.
Every RA(Resident Assistant, like CollegeBuff) is given a fire extinguisher and a pair of rubber gloves to deal with blood. They do not recieve instruction in use of the extinguisher, because the university doesn't want to be liable for accidents or injuries caused by misuse. (I wonder if they know that by giving them to the RA, they are already liable). There is no first aid kit in the building.
In the event of a fire, a response to the University is all of the University Heights FD, inluding the engine, ladder and both squads if they can staff them all. I believe they have automatic M/A for confirmed fires. As it is though, most dorms are of brick or block construction, so most fires will be contained to the room. Two years ago, some arsonist student lit a few couches up in one of the dorm lounges. No one stepped forward to claim responsibility, so they took any one in the dorm with a dorm violation and drew straws. The three picked were tossed out of the dorm.
So that's the emergency reponse policy of this school in a nutshell. As for the relationship between the FD and CSS, I'm not sure, but I bet its just like most people described.

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: daysleeper47 ]