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Do you think vol. FF's get a fair reputation?

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  • #46
    Pardon me while I vent...

    THIS IS NOT A PAID VS. VOL ISSUE! One of the problems is right here. It's staring you in the face. Whenver someone criticizes the vol. fire service, it automatically turns into a war. Maybe we should take an introspective look at this issue and maybe, just maybe, we can work on a solution or two. The children who perpetuate the paid vs. vol. thing will never fix the vol fire service. People with maturity and brains who may be able to see that there is some vaildity to the criticism will ultimately be in place to tackle the problems. Unfortunately, there are precious few who actually fit this description. For God's sake, do you really believe that the vol. fire service, or you department for that matter is without flaws? Do you honestly feel that there is no systemic problem with the way the vast majority of the vol. service operates? If you do, it is high time to get your head out of the sand.

    BTW OLE. Besides my 'national certification' in fire investigation, I am a volunteer fire fighter for 26 years who has achieved the certifications you have listed...as a volunteer. Nice try though son.

    [ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: George Wendt, CFI ]
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    • #47
      I'm a volunteer, and the way that I look at it is : "That person that I'm saving, does he care if I'm a volunteer and I don't get paid for this?" That paid FF is there to help train us and help us help him later on when called to duty....
      Joel

      Lets never forget the events of 9-11

      If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

      **And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

      Comment


      • #48
        I think that it can go both ways. Some career guys see On-Call Firefighters as dumb jerks, but some see us as professionals. I think it just depends on the person. One thing I do know is that since the only career department in this area just laid off about 70 firefighters due to budget cuts, they have realized just how important the on-call guys are due to their need for mutual-aid.

        [ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: SCAFDEXP ]

        [ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: SCAFDEXP ]
        Nick Funk "Bubba"
        Firefighter
        Grand Blanc Fire Dept.

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        • #49
          (sigh)
          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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          • #50
            Story from today gang:

            I backed into a parking space at the local pharmacy. This space had been converted from a handicapped space a while ago, so long that some of the old handicapped symbol was showing on the pavement under the back paint-over. As I'm getting out, 2 old fellas are all over me for taking a handicapped spot, while another slows on his drive by, seeing my FD tags, and yells - he's a fireman, he can do anything he feels like. Pointing out the new handicapped spaces with new signs and fresh paint didn't seem to phase their closed minds.

            Guess it says something, huh folks?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Fire Line:
              rds3604 I don't know how long you've been on this forum but every couple of months a newbie comes along and starts a thread like this. We then spend the next couple of weeks on a "them vs us" trash-a-thon. STOP THIS MADNESS NOW!
              Nuff said. Why play into the game?
              Take care, stay safe, & stay low!

              Lt.

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              • #52
                Well George,
                When you speak, you make it sound like you're talking about the "whole" volunteer force. Keywords are needed like "a few" or "some" departments. THAT'S why SOME volunteer departments are getting a bad reputation! That is great you have attained your certifications for all of those.... Was it because you wanted a bigger pay check, or because you felt you needed to understand the "red devil" more and you have this desire to learn as much as possible?????

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                • #53
                  OLE!!!! Ouch That one hurt him for sure. You are right..key word..."a few" "some." But...remember...one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch...if you dont remove it.

                  dont get me wrong..I agree with you.

                  I was both career and vol. And "most" of my certifications I got through my volunteer department because I wanted to "know more." True...it did help me in my career job..but...none the less.....
                  09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                  ------------------------------
                  IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                  "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                  BMI Investigator
                  ------------------------------
                  The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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                  • #54
                    OLE your missing the point, the "few" as you put it, in the areas that they operate are what the public there perceive all volunteer departments to be like. you get the point?
                    And in that sense it is the problem of all volunteer firefighters to try to repair

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                    • #55
                      SMOKE286,
                      I understand perfectly!! I just didn't really realize that it was so nasty. Around here, (north Iowa and southern Minnesota) the volunteer departments depend upon the professional departments and the same holds true like wise. When people start throwing mud at eachother and generalizing things as a whole, then I have a problem...... True, organizations can blacken their own eyes, BUT people need to be more open minded and not think just because there is a "FEW" doesn't make it "ALL".

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                      • #56
                        OLE; Why don't you read ALL of my posts before you insert your foot into your mouth.

                        The problems that I have described are systemic. That means that the system is broke. I did not demean any one FD or group of FF. The fact of the matter today remains that there are many, many problems nationwide with the volunteer fire service. No one can argue with that. Are your Vol. FD in IA and MN perfect? If they are, please advise so that we may direct the attention of the other 48 states to that area so that all of our mistakes can be corrected. Of course thay are not perfect. No FD is.

                        I have been screaming that this is not a paid vs. vol. issue. If mature, non emotional, dedicated people to sit down and examine the vol. service as a whole, identify the problems and begin to search for solutions. Then, and only then, can we fix the system. Because if we don't fix it, the system will cease to exist.

                        BTW, you sound like an idiot when you mock people who have obtained certifications. Please tell me why my employer (County Law Enforcement) would pay me for (as an example) a FFI certification that I obtained over 20 years ago? I, as do most FF, go to training to become better fire fighters. A little maturity wouldn't hurt you either.
                        PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Sorry George,
                          No foot in my mouth and according to some who agree with me, I do not sound like an idiot. Better take a good look in the mirror..... Nuf' said.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I've gotta agree that a lot of the focus has fallen away from our intended purpose, or "mission" and has shifted to the social club aspect. I've seen it myself - guys who complain about drills and meeting taking too long and "cutting into their drinking time", or guys who say they're not gonna come out on "stupid assist EMS calls because they're a firefighter, not a doctor", etc. C'mon, what are we here for? I dunno about others, but I, believe it or not, actually want to serve the community I live in! If that means getting up at 2AM and going out to the "little old lady who fell out of bed" call because the squad can't get an EMT, then that's what I have to do, and I am glad that I can help.

                            We each have to look and see why we are here - are we here to help others, or are we here to go to parades and have beef 'n beer socials? If it's the former, then we have to accept the fact that training, and lots of it, is gonna be required. A professional attitude is required. The ability to get along with other companies, who may or may not operate the same way you do, is required.

                            If you're looking for a hangout and parades, buy some instruments and form a string band. Leave the public service to guys who want to serve.

                            We want a good reputation with the public, we have to start by changing the inside. Only then can we create a better image in the community.

                            By the way, if anyone is part of a department that is using a "customer service card" ( we responded to your house/business on such a date - how did we do? thing, please e-mail me with the details, as I am looking into such a thing to improve our image in the community.

                            George - hope to see you in Wildwood in September.

                            Jim
                            My views are, of course, mine alone, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of my station

                            "Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. " ~ Robert Ingersoll

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jim Beutel:
                              If you're looking for a hangout and parades, buy some instruments and form a string band. Leave the public service to guys who want to serve.
                              Jim[/QB]
                              This is my new favorite quote.

                              As far as seeing me in Wildwood, soory, not in the last 15 years at least. It is a drunkfest and another example of how vol. FF give themselves a bad name. Somebody post the arrest statistics from the w/e when it's over.
                              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                rds3604,

                                My response to your question is that "SOME" departments get a fair reputation and "SOME" don't. A "FEW" people automatically think that the word "volunteer" is the same with social club, party, drunk fest, etc.... But a "FEW" people appreciate their local departments for the time spent in learning and training and helping out their local community. Bottom line, "YOU" know what you want for your department and how you percieve it will be how others percieve it too. Lead by example!!!!! You want it to be a drunken social club??? Then you will. If you want it to be the best it can be?? Then you will. All it takes is one screw up and people will see it the way they want to. It takes a lot longer to build something up than it does to rip it down!!!!!!

                                George, sorry I went for the throat but I'm in the position here in trying to build up our department. I appologize for the strong words I threw your way.

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