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  • hctrouble25
    replied
    I think I did that one already with the "women in the firehouse" thing I posted. ahhahahaha

    Leave a comment:


  • ntvilleff
    replied
    Hmmmmm..........women that **** off men.......might be a good topic for a string!?

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  • hctrouble25
    replied
    ntville: Give it time...I am a woman with a big ol' mouth..I am bound to **** you off sometime in the near future. Just remember I always admit when I am wrong or make a mistake....I had to learn to do a couple of things since I have a big ol' mouth and that is to apologize and eat some delicious humble pie. Take care out there. Glad we finally got it all straight.

    Leave a comment:


  • ntvilleff
    replied
    hctrouble

    I think I love you now.

    I agree, the academy doesn't give you smoke so thick you can't see your hand in front of your face, and fire so hot your on your stomach as soon as you make entry. But since the EPA makes such a big stink about doing live burns in real building like we used to. (houses up for demo). It's the best they can do I guess. (We all know how to put out propane fires real good though)

    [ 07-06-2001: Message edited by: ntvilleff ]

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  • hctrouble25
    replied
    nitville: I see your point now...I wasn't reading it completely correctly the first two or three times..sorry. I am not arguing again, I just have to say that I don't agree that the Fire Academy can show you a whole lot about fireground training either. The only reason I say this is from personal experience. I don't see how working in a very controlled situation with fire can teach you any more than you think being sent off to a deserted island with each other can. I have been in structure fires and believe me it is nothing like what I did in live burns in the Academy. NOTHING. The only true fire ground training you can get is at the scene of a fire call...be it a car accident, a house fire, a search, etc. This is where you learn what you are capable of and what your other team members can do as well. In the Fire Academy I got paired off with someone different every time we did an evolution..I hardly had time to learn their name let alone know what they could do on the actual scene. But again I am sorry I did not fully comprehend what you were saying....I still feel that this island thing would be beneficial to these people, but maybe not so much for training as for teamwork. Thanks for keeping with your point until I got it. Take care.

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  • NTVILLEFF
    replied
    I also agree with HC. Teamwork is essential on the firegorund. I just don't see it as a practical tool for fireground situations. Who's money are they using for this? Taxpayers?
    You wanna learn how to survive a shipwreck, go practice on an island.
    You wanna learn to survive in a fire, go practice at the academy.

    [ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: ntvilleff ]

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  • bgfdchick
    replied
    I see this being a good thing for perhaps a brand-spanking-new department that needs to get some common ground. I don't see the purpose for departments with bickering members (as some may try to use it), or even just as a learning retreat.

    I agree with HCTrouble that teamwork is important on the fireground. But I feel that succsessfull fireground work has to have a perfect balance of TRUST (of each-other's knowledge,abilities, ideas, planning, et al) as well as teamwork. They are not one and the same, and I just don't think they can be forged or fostered in a "boot camp" or "survivor" environment.

    Yeah, when I played sports, I played on a successful team, as a teammate, with people I wouldn't trust to hold a tippy-cup of water without spilling. Teamwork and trust are not always the same.

    I've gotten my best training (other than actual working incidents) from organized drills at my fire station and at the academy. As far as reflection and discussion - we go to the pub afterwards in a casual environment, and have honest reflection. And its a heck of a lot cheaper than going to an island. Informal yes. Practical and helpful - hell yeah!

    My experience with corporate retreats has been pretty bad. No one is totally honest, and the deep-touchy moderators make me want to bludgeon myself with my own body parts.

    [ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: bgfdchick ]

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  • scrapper
    replied
    They may also come off the island hating each others guts. They will definately figure out where each stands in regards to dealing with stressful situations such as hunting for your daily food, being away from your family for an extended period, etc. This will do nothing for fire training, however.

    This does sound like it may be fun and they may all have a blast. But I don't think teamwork needs to be taught this dramatically. Most people in this job inherently are good team members anyway and this survival thing will not change the ones who aren't.

    You can weed out the good and bad team members at any fire drill or call. Maybe they should stick to drilling on the fireground.

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  • ntvilleff
    replied
    I don't think I'm being ridiculous.

    Tell me ONE thing on that island they will learn (and don't you dare say teamwork)that when in a burning building they will be able to say "HEY!! I have (this situation) here and I remember learning to (do this) when I was playing survivor".
    If you can name one thing that is a valid fireground training tool I will sing the praises of your name every time the tones go off for the next week.
    I reiterate once again, it will build CHARACTER but no practical fireground tactics.

    [ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: ntvilleff ]

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  • MikeHunt
    replied
    Originally posted by hctrouble25:
    The scenarios they are setting up are to be used to teach these EMTs and fire fighters to survive and to rely on each other as team members to get the job done...whether it be catching a rat,...
    Since when is catching a rat firefighting function.

    Leave a comment:


  • hctrouble25
    replied
    ntville, you know what I meant..no need to be ridiculous. Apparently many of you do not see the "big picture" here. That is fine..not everyone can see the gray areas in life and in training. The scenarios they are setting up are to be used to teach these EMTs and fire fighters to survive and to rely on each other as team members to get the job done...whether it be catching a rat, or building a raft, or lifting a ladder, or pulling a fellow fire fighter out of the building. You are entitled to your opinion, but I honestly believe this week will help this department greatly and that many other departments will start to offer survival weeks and weekends.

    [ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: hctrouble25 ]

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  • PFDE4
    replied
    Seems to be stretching it abit to say thay playing "Survivor". Has anything to do with learning the fireground capabilities of others.

    Seems like something to write about on a slow news day.
    Might be fun with alot of beer

    Leave a comment:


  • Halligan84
    replied
    I was kinda amazed at that too.... I think it may be due to the following, feel free to add!
    1. Too many management seminars.
    2. Too many touchy feely "team leaders" (you know there are no bosses in that outfit)
    3. Way too much time on their hands!
    4. Someone sees a few bucks on the speakers circuit or a magazine article
    5. Just way too much dreary weather in Washington to think clearly!

    As long as Im not being sent there.. have fun!

    Leave a comment:


  • ntvilleff
    replied
    "Anything that teaches teamwork is fireground training?"

    Sports teach teamwork...is that fireground training?
    Scouts teach teamwork.....is that fireground training?
    Heck, three legged races teach teamwork..is that fireground training?

    The only thing that prepares you for working a fire is training with fire scenarios. Throwing ladders, practicing SAR techniques, forcible entry techniques. Trying to catch a rat with your buddies and eating it isn't going to do diddly squat for you at the next worker.
    This is just another example of some "new age" chiefs idea (or whoever) to do some funky kind of stuff with their dept.
    so they can make the headlines somewhere.
    Departments need to get back to basics. They need to practice their bread and butter operations. How to advance hoselines, how to ladder a building, how to perform a good search so as not to find out you missed something when it's all over. THAT is fireground training. You can find out what they can and can't do at drills. I want to know that when I'm on the nozzle and we force entry and are faced with a room full of fire that my backup guy doesn't bale. (and it's happened)
    I reiterate the point from my last point. Unless they are going to put them in a life and death situation, there is nothing they will do on that island that will prepare them for the fireground. (unless they set the island on fire).

    [ 07-02-2001: Message edited by: ntvilleff ]

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  • hctrouble25
    replied
    Working as a team is fire ground training. I have never done anything on the fire ground without my partner. I don't go in alone, I don't pull hose alone, etc. We are there as a team to get the job done. It builds better relationships, teaches them about each other's strengths and limitations. I would much rather know that someone couldn't lift 50 lbs. then to find out after they drop their half of the victim we are removing from a house fire. It is all a learning experience. Anything that teaches teamwork is part of fire ground training.

    Leave a comment:

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