Can you believe this Judge's Ruling!!!

[Truckie5553]

OH MY GOD!!!! That is all I can say! We adapt NFPA 1500 with covers facial grooming. Every SCBA manufacture in the business has topic regarding facial grooming and mask seals, but hey these morons cry religion and some judge decided to let them do as they please. Hell the next thing you know we can stop doing interior attacks because its a tuesday and my religion wont let me do attacks on tuesdays. Oh yeah i cant do RIT anymore ither, because that doesnt conform to my beliefs, so im sure OSHA wont mind.

I hope this judge doesnt get the case when the families of these men try sueing the fire department because their family member died in a fire due to smoke inhalation or they was seriously burned due to their hippy hair hanging to their back caught fire! I hope im not the only person upalled by this ruling but this has got to be the most rediculous thing i have ever heard of.

These opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my department or agency that i work for.

------------------
Captain James Collier
McMahan Fire Rescue
KCTCS Area 6 Instructor

[Grit]

Too much religion.

Same bullsh*t reason we can't legalize prostitution, make it safer, tax it, and lower taxes for the rest of us.

But that's besides the point.

[SFD-129-3]

Whats next, making the military easier bc some doughnut stuffer can't pass the pt test? They knew the requirements before they put in their paperwork.

Its issues like this that will cause division among our own ranks, let alone the country as a whole.

[NozzleHog]

Truckie:
No, you're not the only one appalled by this.

This is how great institutions like the fire service are destroyed: gradually, in small increments, like erosion.

If we have no discipline and cannot maintain basic, sensible standards what do we have?

I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused.
-----------------------------------------
DTRT-PTB

[ntvilleff]

I wonder what firefighting experience that judge had or if he even did any research.

The only option left is that though they may still be "firefighters", they can be banned from participating in any structural firefighting or hazmat operations due to the safety implications. Having them sign a waiver of injury won't do diddly squat if faced with a slick lawyer and another idiotic judge. let 'em hang out with the juniors and probies now.

[ntvilleff]

Hmmm, If those firefighters got hurt due to a bad seal and the consequences thereof, and sued the fire dept., could the fire dept sue the judge for passing that ruling?

[ffemtmjb]

The thing that is really unfortunate about this deal is that these ff's are putting their fellow ff's and their department's constituents at risk by their actions. What happens if one of them goes down in a fire because of a poor mask seal? All of a sudden, their partners are in jeopardy and all efforts move away from seach & rescue and fighting the fire so that the downed ff can be rescued. I have a real problem with any religion where it is okay to put your co-workers lives at risk so that you can have a beard. Just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by ffemtmjb (edited 06-26-2001).]

[WillB]

Wasn't one of them "Rastafarian"?

[FireRebel]

one thing I have noticed over the years, people mostly with no goals, no sense of self, basically the people who insist on not working, wake up one day and join a religion or a group who also has the same ideals as they do, they post and make up "rules" as they go to justify their worthless selves..some of these " religions" I have came across have no biblical ties or references, they honestly make up and create new ideals that better suit their lives and call it a religion, so they will not be presecuted....I could go on, on..... it has no place in the Fire service....

[xchief]

It's a sad sad world were in. for the guys in D.C. I hope your being very carefull watch your backs>>

[Turk II]

I think many people are looking at this the wrong way... people read the story and right away jump down the three fire fighter's throats because of their religious beliefs. One thing you need to remember is that these beliefs that the firefighters have are their way of life.

This is hard to understand for most of us who do not share their same beliefs... we don't have to agree with them, but at a minimum we need to understand and respect them. If these three gentlemen do not want to shave their beards then come up with another sollution. Give them administrative details or assign them as drivers. There's plenty of things that a "fire fighter" can do without wearing a mask.

Should their safety be compromised? Absolutely not. If they can't wear a mask then they shouldn't be even thinking about wearing a mask. But just remember that one day NFPA may come up with some crazy idea that conflicts with a widely practiced Christian or Jewish belief.....

- Turk II
- Fire Service Instructor / Religious Studies Undergraduate

[ff_emt74]

As I stated in the previous thread the right to practice religeon is one of our greatest freedoms as Americans. BUT

Safety is paramount! Assign these guys to the pump panel.

[toneloc177]

unless medically instructed or required, no one should be removed from any aspect of the fire service because of their religious beliefs!

when EMS in NYC stated that everyone needed to be clean shaven below the lip line, it raised hell. people w/ religious or medical complications were forced to shave, for fear of disciplinary reprocutions. That ain't right either.

DON'T LET ANYONE PUSH YOU AROUND!!!

(I never had a problem getting a seal when I had a gotti in my younger years)

[Truckie5553]

Originally posted by toneloc177:
unless medically instructed or required, no one should be removed from any aspect of the fire service because of their religious beliefs!

when EMS in NYC stated that everyone needed to be clean shaven below the lip line, it raised hell. people w/ religious or medical complications were forced to shave, for fear of disciplinary reprocutions. That ain't right either.

DON'T LET ANYONE PUSH YOU AROUND!!!

(I never had a problem getting a seal when I had a gotti in my younger years)

(I never had a problem getting a seal when I had a gotti in my younger years)

We are not talking about a gotti here..we are talking about full facial beards. A BIG DIFFERENCE. And the medical thing, there isnt on yet, but if those guys see any fire in any quanity, one of them is gonna get burned.

[BucksEng91]

The issue is simply this - the reg was in place BEFORE these guys joined. This is not something that NFPA or the DCFD just came up with on a whim one day to f*ck with people.

I get tired of people making that tired old religion argument - "gee, if the NFPA comes up with something that conflicts with Jewish or Christian beliefs..." Well, you know what? I hold the human resources bozos and the spineless officers most responsible...the first group for hiring people who are not in compliance with department regs, and the second group for not enforcing an "on the books" safety regulation.