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How Many FIrefighters Out There Smoke?

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  • Captain Gonzo
    Guest replied
    I am a non-smoker. If someone wishes to smoke, that is their right...as long as their smoking does not infringe on the rights of others. Most fire stations have a designated smoking area or are totally non-smoking. Many companies and corporations are totally non-smoking within the confines of their buildings.

    I feel that non smokers should be entitled to the same amount of time that smokers get for their cigarette breaks...with pay, of course!


    For those who feel that it is their God given right to light up whenever and wherever they please, let me offer you a little analogy...

    You are a smoker and you feel that you should have the right to light up anytime and anywhere. Besides all of the known chemicals, carcinogens and other health hazards that are a detriment to both your health and mine, a by product of your smoking is second hand smoke. This second hand smoke permeates the air, causing everything that comes into contact with it, icluding my clothing and hair to reek of your habit if I should happen to be anywhere in your general area.

    I enjoy having a nice cold beer on occasion. While beer does contain alcohol, which can be harmful to the human body and can affect one's judgement, impede the operation of motor vehicles and heavy machinery when consumed in mass quantities, I don't feel the need to take a beer break many times during the day. The byproduct of beer is urine. How would you feel if I decided to permeate your area, hair and clothing with the byproduct of my cold beer?

    Don't blow smoke at me, and I won't pee on you!


    ------------------
    Firefighters: Today's heroes protecting everyone's tomorrows!
    Captain Gonzo


    [This message has been edited by Captain Gonzo (edited 06-07-2001).]

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  • comwhite
    Guest replied
    I'm not a firefighter, I was the fire commissioner for about 3years. As an elected official, I have a strong interest in the fire department and making it beneficial to our city and our volunteers. I've been a smoker for over 30 years.

    Do I think smoking hinders your job performance? I have attended meetings with the volunteers, gone on calls they were at, and I have seen them at official meetings. Never once have I seen either of them so addicted they had to stop what they were doing to "burn one". In the event that happened, rest assured I'd be the first to take that person aside and tell them to get some help immediately.

    Now to fair, does smoking help your job performance? When you're dragging the hose and huffing and puffing before you get to the destination,it doesn't speak favorably. When your standing over a cardiac patient and hacking your head off, it doesn't speak favorably. When your speeding down the highway, and toss out that butt, it doesn't speak favorably.

    Only you can determine if it is a hinderance to your performance. I wouldn't begin to make that judgment call.

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  • CV639
    Guest replied
    Comwhite,
    Thanks for pointing some new things out to me, I hadn't really thought about some of your things and once I read them I realized that I will be able to better defend myself next time the "Smoke Nazis" come around yelling.

    If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been a firefighter and a smoker? and do you feel smoking is hindering your work in any way, shape or form?

    ------------------
    My Opinions are mine and mine alone. They don't reflect my departments or anyone on my department's opinions.

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  • comwhite
    Guest replied
    Interesting topic. I am a smoker and have been for a good many years. I've heard all the arguments listed here, and more. I've been seated in the back of a restaurant so I wouldn't offend the non-smoker. I have been judged by my pastor for this atrocious sin. I have been put outside so my smoke wouldn't get on someone's clothes. It is the cause of any sickness I go to the doctor with. Oh yes, non-smoker, you have made your point quite clear, I am a second class citizen.

    Now, for my pet peeve. Someone telling me to quit for health reasons, that weighs 310 lbs. Or they're telling me with that donut stuck so far down their throat they can't talk.
    Someone telling me I smell like smoke, when they have so much cologne on they're choking me to death.
    Someone telling me not to litter with my cigarette butt, while I'm trying to get chewing gum off the bottom of my shoe.
    Someone telling me I'm going to get cancer, while they've got the darkest tan I've ever seen, with significant signs of melanoma.

    C/mon, I'll respect you with my smoking, if you respect my senses.

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  • CV639
    Guest replied
    Not all smokers just toss their butts anywhere. I personally either put mine out in my ashtray oy my car or if I am out front of the station, our chief had butt-cans put in and we dispose of them in that. (There's an idea for your smokers) as for putting them out in plants and things, that is simple, just tell their either they put them in the ashtrays of they start going outside to smoke. And just so you know, we KNOW its a distguisting habit, and we can't help that, but let's hear some bitching about other things. Lets see, how about the dirty dishes some people leave, or newspapers they leave lying around, or maybe they dont change thier bedsheets after a night shift. Everything is in one way or another "distguisting", @ least we are trying to clean up after ourselves!

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  • DFD FF
    Guest replied
    My main pet peeve with smokers is their rampant sense of entitlement regarding littering. I do not understand why smokers feel they have the right to take a last drag off a cigarette, then drop the butt anywhere they see fit. Everywhere I go in life I see filters lying on the ground. I can't go a day without driving behind some discourteous person flinging a butt out his or her window.

    What do smokers think? Those things will just dissolve? Newsflash: They don't.

    Our firehouses aren't immune this phenomenon. I see butts not only outside quarters, but I even see them inside -- on the ground, even in the occasional potted plants.

    Hey smokers, it's your disgusting habit. Clean up after yourself.

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  • hctrouble25
    Guest replied
    First let me say that I recently became a non-smoker. I smoked for 11 years and finally quit because I was ready to, and because of medical reasons. So far it has been 4 months and I have only come close to starting again once..and that was two weeks after I quit. Since then I have found the will power to quit and have encouraged another friend to attempt it as well. One thing I learned is that a smoker will only truly quit when he/she is ready to quit for good. I tried at least 4 other times and never even came close to quitting for this long or ever felt this good about quitting. There are many guys on my department who smoke, and on meeting night and drill night I am exposed to the smoke because we do not ask smokers to go outside. I remember when I was one of them polluting the air around me, so I simply turn on the smoke eater and deal with it. Smokers have rights as well. If you don't like the smoke, don't go near it...stay at the other end of the room. In our rec room the guys who smoke stay at one side and the non-smokers stay at the other...it works for everyone. We all have to work together, so let's try to get along.

    [This message has been edited by hctrouble25 (edited 06-05-2001).]

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  • Tillerman-6
    Guest replied
    Smoked for 11 years, quit 1 1/2 years ago.

    To all non-smokers... don't EVER get on a smoker's case if they are having trouble quitting. You can only give up an addiction if you have the support of those around you. A load of grief does not help.

    ------------------
    "Back off man... I'm a Scientist."

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  • mfgentili
    Guest replied
    CV, you're missing the point here. The government is not breathing down anyone's neck and telling them not to smoke. They don't care if you smoke or not. They are saying, "if you want to be a career firefighter in a department that falls under civil service regulations in Massachusetts, then you will not smoke. If you would rather smoke, then find a different job or become volunteer firefighter and the rule will not apply".

    It's great that you have that strong of a conviction about your rights, but you must remember we are talking about a condition of employment here and not volunteering. No one is forcing anyone to accept the job. I see from some of your other posts that you just graduated from high school. If you are not going to college, it is time to enter the work force. You will soon find that jobs that pay you have certain rules and regulations. You either follow them or you don't have a job. If you have plans to become a career firefighter, you will find that there is no shortage of applicants for most departments. In fact in my city alone there are currently over 400 on the list waiting for maybe 10 jobs a year so they don't really care who they hire. We just hire them off the list, train them, and if they don't cut it, fire them and hire someone else. It's really that simple. My department doesn't have to recruit or go chasing after applicants, they're lined up outside the doors.

    Your state may not have a no smoking rule but I'm sure it has some type of regulation that you must follow, be it an age limit, educational requirement, or something.

    I wish you well in whatever career path you choose. Taking a stand and having strong convictions is an admirable trait, just think however, about the consequences of those convictions when it comes down to something like getting a job or smoking that cigarette.

    ------------------
    Mike Gentili, Capt.
    New Bedford Fire Dept.

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  • CV639
    Guest replied
    mfgentili,
    Once again, I appreciate your input. However, I still feel that I have a need or want to smoke, that I should be able to and not have the goverment breathing down my neck about it. I mean come on how far can we go? The taxes on a single pack of cigarettes are ridiculious. If they keep going at the rate thier are going in your area, son they will dictate what you eat for breakfast ( no steak, bacon, eggs, ham, gravy, anything good cause it can cause heart problems) All I am saying is that there has to be a point where we take a stand and say, "No, you do not and will not have that kind of power over me. I am an American citizen and that means I have the freedom to choose and do as I please with my life. I will eat a pound of bacon, drink a pot of coffee, and have a cigarette with my breakfast if I feel so! Don't you agree?

    In a qupte from your previous post, you said, "No I don't think it is fair. I think if it is a rule, it should apply to all. The only difference is that it was not a condition of employment when I started but it is now. New guys have a major decision to make, "do I really want this job or not?" "If I want it, I must quit, if I don't want it I can smoke till I'm blue in the face." "

    I don't think it is fair to make these men who want to serve their community make a choice over a decision that they make on their own. Everyone is always talking about how hard it is to get people to join the fire service nowadays and here you are turning people away cause of a silly rule that some guy sat in a SMOKE-FILLED? office and wrote. I can't imagine my company or area having a rule like that, cause as much as we love firefighting, we probably wouldn't have half the dept. that we have, and in some of the other counties in WV and even parts of mine the fire protection would probably drop all together. All I am asking is that people look @ the job we do and see that even the ones who smoke can do it and then maybe just maybe they will understand us a lil bit better and leave us alone!

    ------------------
    My Opinions are mine and mine alone. They don't reflect my departments or anyone on my department's opinions.

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  • mfgentili
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by CV639:
    mfgentili,

    I really think that your local or state government (whoever made that rule) is TOTALLY out of line and I would never work for such a place.
    You're absolutely right, if you smoke you would never work for such a place.

    I m not saying your views or opinions are wrong, but I do have to ask one question, Do you think it is fair to let the older "grandfathered" in firefighters smoke and not the new guys who may have started early in their lives (like me)?
    No I don't think it is fair. I think if it is a rule, it should apply to all. The only difference is that it was not a condition of employment when I started but it is now. New guys have a major decision to make, "do I really want this job or not?" "If I want it, I must quit, if I don't want it I can smoke till I'm blue in the face."

    I know it is very hard to quit as I have tried many times for different reasons and even the strongest of them has failed me cause I don't really and truly have a desire to stop.
    I know, I've been there. Maybe not getting a job you really wanted or the threat of losing it would give you a desire to stop.

    I think that if your government feels they need to control you that much both on and off duty, then maybe they need to examine themselves a lil better. I ll bet if you check with the people who made this ruling, @ least 1-2 of them smoke and they are involved in the same public policy as others and don't need to be risking their health either. Now, I m not saying that these people need their health as much as us (our work is more dangerous) but without them then we are without leadership and that can also be dangerous to us cause then where would the budget approvals to buy new equipment come from? or even the money to hire police officers to help protect us on traffic accidents?
    But they don't have the heart, lung, and cancer presumption laws either. We fought long and hard to get those laws passed and many of our former members now reap the benefits of those efforts. If smoking can in any way pose a threat to those continued benefits then I am all for the ruling. I don't want some panel of doctors, secured by the retirement board, telling me I have no benefits because my illness is directly related to smoking and not to my job. Believe me, that is not an unlikely scenario.

    I think this whole issue really only applies to departments that have retirement systems and presumption laws, and Massachusetts has one of the best. I am willing to trade smoking for this any day of the week. This law only affects civil service departments in the state retirement system. Volunteer and call departments are not affected at all. Their members can smoke all they want.

    Just a few thoughts of mine, not meant to put anyone down or anything.

    Me too!


    ------------------
    Mike Gentili, Capt.
    New Bedford Fire Dept.



    [This message has been edited by mfgentili (edited 06-04-2001).]

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  • CV639
    Guest replied
    mfgentili,

    I really think that your local or state government (whoever made that rule) is TOTALLY out of line and I would never work for such a place. What I do on my own personal time is my business as long as it does not affect the image of the department or the safety of other works. I m not saying your views or opinions are wrong, but I do have to ask one question, Do you think it is fair to let the older "grandfathered" in firefighters smoke and not the new guys who may have started early in their lives (like me)? I know it is very hard to quit as I have tried many times for different reasons and even the strongest of them has failed me cause I don't really and truly have a desire to stop. I think that if your government feels they need to control you that much both on and off duty, then maybe they need to examine themselves a lil better. I ll bet if you check with the people who made this ruling, @ least 1-2 of them smoke and they are involved in the same public policy as others and don't need to be risking their health either. Now, I m not saying that these people need their health as much as us (our work is more dangerous) but without them then we are without leadership and that can also be dangerous to us cause then where would the budget approvals to buy new equipment come from? or even the money to hire police officers to help protect us on traffic accidents? Just a few thoughts of mine, not meant to put anyone down or anything.

    ------------------
    My Opinions are mine and mine alone. They don't reflect my departments or anyone on my department's opinions.

    Leave a comment:


  • mfgentili
    Guest replied
    I hear what you're saying Lt and I agree with you. I don't want anyone telling me what to do in my off time either and if I still smoked, I would be one of the members grandfathered and not affected by this law at all.

    In defense of the ruling though, new hires are told up front and in no uncertain terms that their appointment and continued employment is subject to them not smoking. They even have to sign a form stating that they do not smoke now and will not in the future and if they do, they must be terminated. It doesn't state they may be terminated, it says they must. This really leaves no doubt in the mind of new members.

    I think you're right about Big Brother rules affecting your private life being a good topic. Since you thought of it, why don't you start it. BTW, I like the number part of you name. It's the year I was born.




    ------------------
    Mike Gentili, Capt.
    New Bedford Fire Dept.

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  • FireLt1951
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by mfgentili:
    Not saying I agree or disagree with the rule Lt1951, just posting what it is.

    Look at the last line of your previous post, and I quote, "As long as they abide by the rules you have no gripe..."

    Well, them's the rules so there should be no gripe.

    Guess I didn't make myself clear enough, sorry. The rules within the station house are fine, but the rules as to how and what you do off duty is none of the governments business. I just wonder how far the government entities will carry these off duty rules. It's frighting to think they could gain that much control over your personal outside life. This would make a good forum topic.

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  • mfgentili
    Guest replied
    Not saying I agree or disagree with the rule Lt1951, just posting what it is.

    Look at the last line of your previous post, and I quote, "As long as they abide by the rules you have no gripe..."

    Well, them's the rules so there should be no gripe.



    ------------------
    Mike Gentili, Capt.
    New Bedford Fire Dept.

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