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Can we do too advanced of training?

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  • Can we do too advanced of training?

    Just looking for opinions here. Does anyone else think it's possible that some departments are training on too advanced of training? How can we justify sending members with very limited expeirience to classes like Safety and Survival, RIT(RICE),Structural S&R. When these same members have never been in a live fire.I feel that although these classes are excellent, there has to be some way for these newer members to prove their competency before they are let loose on classes like this.Also, how much information can a newer member retain? If the new guy in the station isn't even a high school graduate,how can we expect them to retain all the information presented in 8-10 classes they jump at the oppurtunity to take? I hate to say "we need to train less" but I do feel that we need to practice the basics until they come as second nature.
    "Stick to the basics, most of us don't know enough to make advanced mistakes!"

  • #2
    I agree we should be training more on basics, no matter how seasoned we are. There should definitely be prerequisites for any advanced training courses in order to avoid the problems you mention. You must crawl before you run.

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    • #3
      IMHO,

      Let them take all the courses they can handle. I believe (besides academy training and the real thing) basics should be done at drills. Everything from making a hydrant (which the probies can do) to flowing a ladder pipe or what have you. If the kids didn't even graduate high school yet he won't be going into any structures anyway. He won't even be allowed to train at a fire academy (assuming he's under 18 still) You never know when some piece of training he picked up along the way will come in handy someday. As far as experience goes, that is totally up to the company officer on scene whether the ff can use his new found training or not. Just because they went to a class on RIT doesn't mean they will be assigned to one. And if they whine....spank 'em!

      [This message has been edited by ntvilleff (edited 06-01-2001).]

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      • #4
        I think that they should be allowed to go to what ever training they want to get involved in. Interest in training is something that hard to come by in my department, so the way I look at it, the less people there, the better chance I get to learn something more than what's being taught. I've only ever seen 3 (with one tonight) real structure fires, and in March I went to a conference about firefighter safety and building/roof structures. It was one of the most interesting things I've ever been on. The reason that I'm all for it is because you don't need to have experience to be safe. I think safety comes from training and yes some experience on the fire ground. I know that when I left the conference, I've never looked at a house or building the same way again.

        ------------------
        Joel

        If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

        **And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

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        • #5
          A few years ago, the big movement was "back to basics." FDNY under the direction of Vinny Dunn coined the phrase also and had the firefighters start thinking along those lines. Somebody above said you have to "learn to crawl before you run." I agree.
          I am seeing a trend, since the introduction of the thermal imaging cameras, in the loss of basic knowledge of search and rescue and other operations. Many departments now pull the TIC off the rig before they pull hoses, set up ladders or anything else. I'm hoping this doesn't become a complacent technology. What happens if that battery dies when you're in the middle of a commercial building during a search??? Are the basic skills of SAR being taught to supplement or are the firefighters of today becoming accustomed to looking at a video screen to find their way through a smoke filled maze.
          I can't promote enough training. If you have to time to train, even if it is a one night or one hour course, continuing training is the key to keeping your skills and knowledge sharp. Experience helps also.

          Engine/Rescue Lt. Kevin C. (aka Pokey)

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          • #6
            I agree with you on the RIT/FAST classes, and I also will throw in Pump Operator type courses. But as far as the Safety and Survival, that is something should know before they ever see live fire. Also, Structural Search and Rescue is part of NFPA Firefighter I, and I hope they make the decision to add Safety and Survival to it also. As far as some of the other more advanced classes, like the technical stuff. I have no real problem with that, on a vollie level it may involve something they do as a occupation.
            I'm w/ firelover, most of this is taught in the academy here for us. But when I was a vollie, I took what I could, and no one should be held back from taking training.

            ==========================================
            The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

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            • #7
              There is a difference between classes and drills.

              I agree with whoever said "take all the classes you want". Education is never a bad thing.

              Drills are where the basics are mastered. Company or Dept. level drills where basic fire fighting methodologies are worked on as a team will make the FD a better organization.

              Sports teams become proficient when they practice as a team. FD's are no different.

              [This message has been edited by George Wendt, CFI (edited 06-08-2001).]

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