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If you throw a book at a fire, will it go out?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Let's move on, the books didn't put it out, or him.

    [This message has been edited by E229lt (edited 06-07-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Lucky?

    From a 5 to a 3 in the city, we got the 5 points and then some that you missed. A 2 class drop, not a 1 class drop. Only 11 departments in Texas have a better rating.

    From a 10/9 in the unhydranted areas to a 6, there's 30 to 40 points you may have missed. A 3/4 class drop. No department in Texas has a better rating.

    You could probably find the 5 points that you just barely missed in the book.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When in fire I throw the book out the window with the hopes of hitting LHS* in the head.


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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    You don't get a class 1,2 or a 3 with luck.

    By the way Richard eng69, what is your ISO class away from the hydrants?

    Buck

    [This message has been edited by Buck (edited 06-07-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Oh yes.. I should add one other tidbit for ya "Ride-a-long Larry"... we missed a Class 3 rating by less than 5 percentage points. We will probalbly take a look at your bible, throw all your stupid ideas out the door, and do it the ISO way like we did to get the 4 rating.

    Anyone who improved their rating by listening to you must have just been lucky...

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by LHS*:
    //My department was able to lower its ISO rating from a 5 to a 4

    I bet, you can't scan and post or email the cover letter from ISO saying that! Oh by the way it is not on the ISO data sheet for the quarter, it has not been published by anyone insurance industry, so all I can do is say you are lying...AGAIN! Prove me wrong!
    Ok you blow hard.. it is finally time for you to eat some much deserved crow! I have in my hand a copy of the letter dated May 15, 2001 addressed to the Mayor of Orrville, Ohio from the Public Relations Department of the INSURANCE SERVICE OFFICE, INC. stating, "We have completed our evaluation of the fire insurance classification for your city and advise that the protection class has improved to a Class 4."

    Now Larry H. Stevens... you false prophet! Stop calling people names when you are the one who is the problem on this forum!

    I will scan the cover page and gladly e-mail it to you... please POST your e-mail address so that I can do that and all of your other "friends" can send you love notes!



    [This message has been edited by Engine69 (edited 06-07-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    LHS,

    Interresting stat on the 2 inch hose.

    We no longer have any 1 1/2 line, and have not for a good number of years. The 1 1/4 tip you are referring to is off of our Gorter barrel. Great shutoff, but antiquated. Absolutaly no water hammer, and it will not accidentially shut off if the hose is dragged. As far as the 1 1/4 barrel, our sop's say not to use it to flow water, evenhtough the GPM's would be fantastic. I'm sure if it were needed a good boss would take off the 7/8 tip off the Gorter complete.

    I think you are a little off concerning our 3 inch line use though. It is only used inside as a supply like like the FDNY uses their 2 1/2. We wye it down to two 1 3/4 lines. The only time it is used as an attack line is in large open structures. Never in compartmentalized buildings. Even the flop house hoteles we have downtown.

    Years ago we had 2, 2 1/2, and 2 3/4 line. That was used as a supply and rarely as an attack line. They still relied on the 1 1/2.
    You are correct in that we use it to supply all other appliances exept the portable hydrant system developed by Blackburn.

    Why are 3 inch couplings wrong?

    Got to go. I'll continue later.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    //My department was able to lower its ISO rating from a 5 to a 4

    I bet, you can't scan and post or email the cover letter from ISO saying that! Oh by the way it is not on the ISO data sheet for the quarter, it has not been published by anyone insurance industry, so all I can do is say you are lying...AGAIN! Prove me wrong!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    //You make some interresting points. Are you advocating the use of 2 inch line over 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 as the perferred interrior hand line?

    In most cases yes. Throughout the 80's 2" out sold 1 3/4". Now it is 40%/60%.

    //With what size and type of tip?

    One with a flow range to match the ability of a hose. Either a Vindicator, Automatic with a range of 350 gpm, slectoflow/trubojet/KK with a range from 95 to 300 or a stacked tip probably a 4 high. 3/4", 1", 1 1/8", 1 1/4" or a 16th stack with a higher flow.

    //So I am at the same page, which one of our tips in SF will flow 300 to 350 GPMs?

    Yes, 1 1/4" smooth bore.

    //Under what conditions do you believe we use our 3 inch line as a hand line?

    I've only seen it used inside and outside over a period of 20 years, and as a supply and supply for squirts, ladder pies and snorkles. A majority of time you use 1 1/2" and 1 3/4" lines inside. Don't let the big city guys hear that...they believe a 2 1/2" is essential. Your housig stock matchees Boston's to a Tee and they use 1` 3/4 and 2" handlines.

    //I already know you don't agree with our using 3 inch as a supply line,

    I don't recall saying that, 3 inch couplings are sily, they helped Oakland burn up 3000 plus structure one day. With high pressure hydrant system with pressures to 300 psi it works fine, however you also have low presssure hydrants. 4 inch would be the perfect hose, you'd only need one, ever. Emmitt always thought the 4 inch soft suctions should have been the supply line size but left it to Blackburn to decide. 5' off the hose wagons has bailed you out on occassion.

    //advocate 4 or 5" And in some cases I would agree.

    Like the day of the earth quake or large stuctures, multiple alarms. Although, I've never laid more than 3 miles f 5 inch hose with the SFFD, I know you need a lot more than you have, I think the correct number is 20 miles to refill cisterns and transfer water throughout the Marina District.


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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    LHS,

    You make some interresting points. Are you advocating the use of 2 inch line over 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 as the perferred interrior hand line?

    With what size and type of tip?

    So I am at the same page, which one of our tips in SF will flow 300 to 350 GPMs?

    Under what conditions do you believe we use our 3 inch line as a hand line?

    I already know you don't agree with our using 3 inch as a supply line, and would advocate 4 or 5 inch. And in some cases I would agree.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Fred,
    Come join us, we've gone to a beter place, not one post from the rat bastard. Join the fun and when he arrives, we'll move on.

    This man has lost every shred of dignity, he has nothing to lose. So what do you say, how about a nice poem or story?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    /You still haven't shown us where IAFF

    I posted a link to IAFF saying just that.

    //Check your facts again...its 55mph for aerial apparatus. ALthough it is just a recomendation.

    Where may I ask? I don't suppose it would be too much for you to cite chapter an versus would it? Where is the word maximum used???? In fact, you can't show us or post a citation it DOESN'T EXIST.

    //I'm sure someone of your wealth of knowledge would be a great speaker for FDIC or Fire/Rescue.

    Been there done it.

    //I am through with you on this thread.

    Good bye!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    You want a definition? This is just more evidence you didn't spend enough time on the end of a knob. Besides you are the one who claimed that there was language in multiple standards and laws that indicated that a nozzle team consists of two men. You still haven't shown us where that was in 1710 or 1720 OSHA, 1901 or IAFF.

    A nozzle team is made up of at least a Nozzle-man and a Back-up man.(there are many different terms) Nozzle-man directs the stream, Back-up man helps take-up the reaction force so the nozzle man can perform his duty.

    One may enter a building with a two-man team. Once inside just as you said...
    Oh I see, but OSHA says: “ Fire fighters in the buddy system are required to be in direct voice or visual contact or tethered with a signal line.””

    I guess you mean you use lots of mirror down the hall or on the stairs to see around corners eh?
    -All they have to do is maintain is voice contact. NOT Visual AND Voice. Besides if you'd ever actually been in a house fire you'd know that there is too much smoke during initial operations for any mirrors to work anyhow for visual contact.

    -Therefore one could be on the nozzle by himself taking the full load of the nozzle reaction because the back-up guy while still within voice contact (Still "legal" in the eyes of OSHA) is 15 feet down the hall or around the corner and not be able to take the load off of the nozzle man.

    You contradict yourself:

    A team is one huh Fred? OSHA says, A minimum of four individuals is required, consisting of two individuals working as a team in the hazard area [5 (a)(1)] and two individuals present outside this hazard area for assistance or rescue at emergency operations where entry into the danger area is required. [29 CFR Part 1910.134 (e)(3)(ii)]
    We are talking about a "nozzle team" not an "entry team".

    I would like you, LHS* to go back to where anyone said they were entering a building with fewer than two men on the line. All I see is a discusion over safe operating limits if one man should have to be on the knob alone...NOT in the structure or alone.

    That is how one can become a "one man team". You can debate whether that is a proper term or not...however it would be just dancing over the real issue on how many men you have on the knob safely with certain a flow.

    I won’t even bother with the others, I guess you can’t read Fred.
    No I can read...but apparently you can't comprehend...must be some thin air over there in Nevada.

    Check your facts again...its 55mph for aerial apparatus. ALthough it is just a recomendation.

    Your Dept has had TIC longer than FDNY? Really when did Kingston FD get these? The issue was you said they rejected TICs I said they have had them for some time.

    LHS* you are a "Fire Guy"(???) with supposed credentials that would rival that of any fireman in America. I would like to know when we will see you on the seminar circuit? I'm sure someone of your wealth of knowledge would be a great speaker for FDIC or Fire/Rescue.

    I am through with you on this thread.

    Two cents from a fireman.

    FTM-PTB

    [This message has been edited by FRED (edited 06-05-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Phildabox:
    Occupation: fire guy
    Location: NV USA

    Fire Guy? What in the huck is that?

    Someone who flames everyone who does not bow down towards the west at least five times a day to pray the great Imam of firefighting...LHS*! (apologies to the Muslim readers of the forums!)

    Many of us have been honored by being insulted by him....myself included!

    LHS* I know that you will be reading this.
    Each time you attempt to play the point/counterpoint game with someone on the forums you sound like the little kid in the schoolyard who claims to know everything there is to know about anything and has to have the last word....all that's missing is is nyah nyah nya nyah nyah!

    Big Paulie has posted on numerous occasions asking you to tone down the rhetoric...maybe you should take his advice before you totally ruin what's left of your credibility.


    ------------------
    Firefighters: Today's heroes protecting everyone's tomorrows!
    Captain Gonzo


    [This message has been edited by Captain Gonzo (edited 06-06-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Phildabox:
    Occupation: fire guy
    Location: NV USA

    Fire Guy? What in the huck is that?

    It's a wannabee with paper cuts from turning all those pages

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