Black turnouts

[dmk]

My department is thinking about going to black turnouts. We have Tan ones. 1)I would like to know who has black ones.
2)Is black better than Tan. 3)safer to be seen
4)Black does not show the dirt. How do you know they are dirty. 5)Why does most everyone wear tan turnouts.

[toddmcbr]

My department has black bunker gear with orange stripes and I think they show up just as good as anything else. I actually like them better because they don't show the dirt.

I don't think black is better. Its just a matter of personal preference.

[OLE]

We have tan and I see more and more people getting away from black (absorbs heat, and yes, you do want the dirt to show so you are able to get it off! Can't see it as well in the dark as light tan turn outs. Any more it's not how you look, it's how you want to be most safe!

[Truckman]

This is a subject of debate among all kinds of safety extremists. Is black a "safe" color for turnouts?

Now I prefer black. I believe that it maintains a professional appearance longer than lighter colors because it doesn't show permanent stains (take a look at tan, yellow, or white after one fire). As far as not knowing if it's clean, I say the individual should be responsible for cleaning their gear. If you think they're dirty, clean them.

As far as the visibility of the color, any color can be difficult to see at night, that is why there is a requirement for reflective trim.

Finally, there is the heat factor. My department issues tan. Reason being that the ones responsible feel that it is cooler in hot weather. Having worn both, I don't notice much differance, if any. When it is 100 degrees with 80% humidity, it's all hot.

The issue of color is more about tradition, not safety. We can hold on to traditions and still be safe, i.e. NFPA still allows red fire apparatus even though someone said it was not a safe color.(thank god for that)

Good Luck, Be Safe


[This message has been edited by Truckman (edited 05-29-2001).]

[eyecue]

You are right about black looking good longer. It doesnt show the battle scars as bad. As far as sun heat goes its no biggie because they are designed to keep high heat out. The lighter colors reflect heat and light better and there is an issue with dyeing PBI. Also Kevlar fades in the sun and shows that it is time to replace it if you see red spots due to heat exposure. As far as washing goes: After every exposure to heavy smoke it should be washed. If you are in an interior attack and you are done, the gear should be sprayed down while you are in it and have SCBA on. Then it needs to be removed and bagged, taken to the station and washed. IF you can smell smoke on it, wash it.

[FRED]

Interesting topic...

I read a report conducted by the NTIS(or one of those organizations) and other organizations some years back...they looked at the color of gear.

If memory serves the studies found little effect of radiant heat on the body's core temp.(which is what is really important.) The surface temp increase vs. tan was negligent.

As for tan being more visible...my personal experince has been at night all I can see is the reflective striping thus making tan gear look black. The striping is what makes it visible not the tan color.

As for stains and cleaning...black does have a better appearance in my opinion. There are some stains that just wont come out...Tar being one of them. Black hides them well.

I have not seen NFPA or OSHA come out against black gear. which to me is more evidence that if one wants to have black gear...so be it, if you want tan, blue, red or what ever color you so desire who cares. Just so it is what your men need to operate effectively and efficently.

Two cents from a fireman.

[Plug-Ugly]

One word sums up why fire coats should be black......TRADITION. They go with leather helmets and red fire engines. Maybe it's just more of a northeast tradition.

[Captain Gonzo]

My Department issues black turnout gear. The last time that we made a gear purchase, the Chief allowed us to decide the color...after all, we are the ones that have to wear it.

In 1982, we did get yellow Nomex gear...with the yellow reflective stripes....we looked like a bunch of bumblebees! They didn't stay yellow for too long, and even after washing had a dingy look to them.

Black does hide the dirt well. If it is exposed to extreme heat, our gear (made out of P84) will turn brown. Gear washing is important. I try to wash my turnouts at least quarterly and after any structure fire.

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Firefighters: Today's heroes protecting everyone's tomorrows!
Captain Gonzo

[ggtruckie]

My department swithed back to black after about 10 years of wearing that tan crap. I perfer it, my reason is that no one else in our jurisdiction wears black gear so we stand out, and can easily recognize our crew. No dirt dosent show up as easy, and yes thats a bad thing, so just wash it reguarlly which we should do anyway. and does it really matter if black absorbs heat more, its like wearing a winter jacket during summer, do you think that the color of this coat matters, I haven't noticed feeling hotter in it yet. Plus we look damn good in it.

[jizumper-5]

I happen to have 2 sets of gear with 2 departments. (recently moved) One black and one tan. It doesn't really matter what color I where, I just want the best protection. My personal preference in tan (PBI/Kevlar) for no other reason except it looks good with the black leather . Just my 2 cents.

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Keep Safe!

[FHandz17]

I don't understand the "black hides the dirt arguement". I thought it was every firemans goal to look as if he just crawled out from under a coal pile. We want our helmets to look like they were baked at 400 degrees for 2 hours, but we want out turnouts to look like they brand new????????

However, I do think black looks better, more traditional, not because it's cleaner.

[Bob Snyder]

I've had black, yellow, tan and off-gray turnouts over the years. I have one set of tan (PBI) and one off-gray (Nomex III) now. It really has never made a difference to me what color my turnout gear was, and it still doesn't. I wash my gear often because it's simply good maintenance of the gear, not because I care even the slightest how it looks. I've never been convinced of any performance difference based on color of gear (material, design, and construction are what makes the difference, as far as I can tell).

Frankly, I don't understand what all the fuss over how we look is all about. I buy based on what works for me (which is why my flashlights came right off the MagLite shelf at Kmart), what I think is the best overall value (that's how I got the Nomex III gear), or to evaluate new products/compare products (which is why I have three hoods...one Nomex, one PBI, and one P84...in case anyone cares, I like the P84). Shouldn't we be more worried about what works than about how pretty we look?

[FFShooty]

Gee....I thought it was all about black gear, and leather helmets with bourkes. I mean after all, when you cut through all the b/s, it's about how we look isn't it?


FTM-PTB-EGH

[Captain Gonzo]

As Billy Crystal's Saturday Night Live character Fernando would say...

Firefighters arriving at a scene wearing black gear, leather helmets and riding on red fire trucks....darling, that's mahvelous...simply mahvelous!!!

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Firefighters: Today's heroes protecting everyone's tomorrows!
Captain Gonzo

[FF 13 50]

I think one main advantage black gear has over tan is when its exposed to extreme heat the dye actaully burns out of the coat, its a good indicator that your gear is going to defect. I think it might be a pyschological thing also but because of the extreme contrast between black and yellow striping, compared to tan and yellow striping, i think the black gear's more noticible at dark. But im not sure.

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The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten.