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The LHS* thread- Part three

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  • The LHS* thread- Part three

    Just kidding!

    Actually, this is for all those who want to continue the topic about interior attacks. Personally, I would use a fog stream when making initial attack and then open it up to hit direct areas of fire Ex. attic area, exposures etc...

  • #2
    I was always taught to have my fog nozzle on straight stream, use quick bursts of water to chace the flames back to its point of origin. Then knock it down with the straight stream.

    If things go wrong, I can put the fog pattern on and back away.

    I like the fog nozzle becuase it allows my to change patterns as the situation dictates.

    I do not have as much experience with SB nozzles, so my opinion my be a little one sided.

    Let's keep this one on topic :-)

    [This message has been edited by firefighter26 (edited 05-29-2001).]


    • #3
      My personal opinion is to use a combination nozzle when doing an attack. When you first go in have it on straight stream if there is a possibility of people being in the building to minimize steam and heat and if it flashes I would sure as hell want fog with me so I can fall on my back and make a fog cloud with the hopes of makeing it out alive. Or if there is no one in the building make a a power cone and shoot it at the heated gases on the celling and knock the fire to next to nothing fast the do some fast shots when the size is reduced. I would like to finish this by saying I have been doing fire fighting for a little over 2 years and am no expert, so any input either for or against my post would be incouraged as long as it was constructive. And guys CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.


      • #4
        For my two cents worth. I have been fighting fires for over 38 years and have been a fire instructor for a lot of that time.
        One thing that I believe very strongly is that when it comes to aggressive interior fire attack, A solid stream nozzle, or the Vindicator, would be the weapon of choice. (
        I have yet to see the room & contents fire that could not be controlled in 6 to 8 seconds with this type of nozzle.
        As far as having the combo. nozzle so the stream can be opened to fog to back out of an area, look at it this way. If I am hitting the fire with all of the water that the nozzle can flow, And I still need to "back-out", when I open the stream to fog much of the water is now going on the floor and I have lost fire flow.
        The combo nozzles diffidently have their place, but not on an interior attack.

        Asst Chief Jim Kron


        • #5
          Well, for my .02 worth...

          I like the auto fogs. We'll start initial interior flows on straight stream at 200gpm and we can flow up to 325gpm on an 1.75" or 2" line and still have a great stream (ever try to flow 300+ on a 15/16"? You can do it, but the stream sucks) with plenty of reach and penetration. Or if we don't need 200gpm, the nozzleman can gate back and still get have a good stream.

          In 20 years, I have yet to see an R&C that can't be controlled in just a few seconds with autos.

          Smoothbores have their place on our apparatus too; we keep them in a compartment (except for the one on a 2.5" line).


          • #6
            Okay, question for Kron. Exterior breached wall/window, etc... What nozzle do you use. Adjustable on straight, solid smooth bore?
            Had more to this question, but misspelled my password and the first try was mercifully deleted.


            • #7

              Your idea of falling on your back and creating a fog cloud to protect you in a flashover will not save you. You and anyone else in a fire compartment that reaches flashover will have under 5 seconds to get out alive. A handline in your hands inside that room cannot protect you.

              The BTUs generated at flashover will not be overcome by a single line in time to insure survival. The only sure way to survive a flashover is, as Monty Python would say, "RUN AWAY"!!!

              A full and regular cooling of the ceiling and walls as you work your way in with a straight or solid should keep things from reaching flashover. Then a quick sweep of the floor, shut down, move up and hit it again. I am not advocating throwing water at smoke. But when the smoke coming out the door is rolling black and filling more than half the door opening, a full cooling of the ceiling is warranted.

              Always know where the nearest exit is from your location, if the crap hits the fan you will have only one shot at diving out and most likely you will be doing it blind.

              If you were taught this maneuver, please, have the instructor check his/her information, the life you save may be every future student of theirs.


              • #8
                I would like to thank everybody for keeping the replies on topic. I hope I dont Jenx it by saying that. O well, everyone stay safe and keep the good replies coming!


                • #9
                  Hey, PFR, whaddya mean getting off topic like that. Whatchya thinking of? Geez, after all we do to keep this an on-topic post.


                  • #10
                    Dr Law: For a breached wall or a window attack, If I am SURE that no life is in danger, nothing can beat an indirect attack, using the steam generated by a fog pattern pointed at the celing. It WILL extinguish the fire, without having to enter the area.
                    When I first entered the fire service, high pressure fog was considered the way to go. We had a 1" line pumped to 600 - 800-psi. I have personaly witnessed victums that I am sure we "cooked" with this type of attack.
                    Because we can never be sure that the area has no life, I would still go with a solid stream or a straight stream, To avoid the steam and to keep from "pushing" the fire.

                    E229: I would differ with you in the fact that a stream at the celing WILL keep the room from "flashing", But again NOT a fog pattern. I don't want to avoid a flashover just to be steamed like a lobster in a pot. If the room is ready to flash, according to Vince Dunn we have 2 seconds once it flashes, that line is the ONLY protection that we do have.


                    • #11
                      Well I almost hate to jump in here.
                      I read pages 1,2, & 5 of the first part of this.
                      Locally if we had brought up the subject I think it would have died at that point.
                      The only thing I have seen the SB nozzle used for has been for a water fight contest.

                      Stop don't beat me up, it just hasn't been used or trained on in our area.
                      Let alone been taught about.

                      The #s, gpm, flows, tests and experence have taken me by suprise.

                      Outside of that I find it interesting w/ all the support for the SB that you almost never see the venders making a big sales pitch for the SB and the advantages of it.
                      Can someone help me out w/ that?

                      Almost feel like I am asking one of those DUMB questions, but haven't been there and haven't done that w/ the SB.


                      • #12
                        I agree with Korn, straight stream (preferably SB) is the way to go. A fog steam will not protect you from a flashover, believe me on this one. The fires moving to fast and the heat is to high, in other words- Haul [email protected]

                        Combo nozzels (depending on your citys water pipes) have a tendency to clog up on you. Inside, you don't have time to keep flushing the nozzel. Flushing the hydrant is a give me but does not always prevent sediment from clogging nozzels.

                        Made this short, got to go to work. Stay safe evreyone. 229, thumbs up brother.

                        [This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 05-30-2001).]


                        • #13

                          Profits on a SB tip are pretty poor.


                          • #14
                            I like smoothbore, but i think that fog serves good purpose as well, my preferance go in with a breakaway, if you cant get penetration, drop the fog, and go with the slug tip. Not really the best of both worlds but close enough for government work u know. But then again i would rather be riding the Truck. Yes i no can spell wel.


                            • #15
                              Come from a company that currently has SB's on every preconnect, and both standpipe packs. Changed maybe 6-8 years ago; and I agree from what I've seen in 27 years.

                              The thing I want to add is this: If you break up the stream by cracking the nozzle partially, you can vent smoke pretty well. Not as good as fog, but it surprised me when I first tried it myself when we were comparing fog vs. SB before we changed to all SB. Might take a little longer, but who cares at that stage. Small price to pay for the SB punch.

                              You can also crack the nozzle partially if you have some contents burning, instead of room(s) off. There goes another argument for combos.

                              The only thing I can't refute is the greater tendency to kink lines at lower pressure needed for SB's. Training, practice, and experience folks. Oh yeah - and manpower.


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