FDNY And the City Vs. NYC*EMS ????

[Brian Dunlap]

Just finished up reading a Web page ..Check Out the Web Site www.thelunatick.com

Once you get in to the site click the Fire and EMS Icon and Read what this guy wrote up about FDNY and the City Vs. EMS He calls the Title to the Link FDNY Sucks ...This guy really beats on the FDNY and how they and the city supposedly "destroyed" EMS Services and how people are dying at the hands of the FDNY Fire Commissioner and the Mayor -- I Know this may be old news and not directly a firefighting topic but it just struck me off guard and thought others might be intrested in seing this page --- Is it truth or is it Fiction ???

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STRATFORD FIRE CO. # 1 NEW JERSEY STATE FIREMEN'S CONVENTION OVER-ALL CHAMPIONS 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2000 !!

[51Truck_K]

NO, its real...FDNYSUCKS is a real person, with a big grudge against FDNY, and a rather popular website......He works EMS, and I believe was a green pant purist...He's just ****ed that he's not on the "real" job......

[FireLt1951]

51Truck-K, you're not alone. The rift between EMS and the Firefighters here have have been strained for 20 years. EMS sometimes just doesn't get it. I do feel that a lot of them want to be firefighters. Here EMS has a huge turn over rate. Where do most of them gravitate to? Firefighting, then their attitudes change and they all of a sudden change their tune ( we've had at least 250 EMT's switch over). Slam us and then join the ranks of the best profession in the world. Go figure.

[51Truck_K]

So true! Except most guys in NY that work EMS wannabe Cops!
As far as sometimes EMS not "getting it", I may have to disagree with ya on that. NOt in all areas, or all circumstances, BUT....I have deep roots in EMS, particulary Private EMS (but WITH a Union!)in a major NY City. My experience was/is that the FF on medical calls just don't give a ****. As soon as EMS arrives, they leave, no report, no help, no vitals, the patient MAYBE on a o2 mask, more often than not, on a pediatric mask! And I've seen countless Engines parked right IFO the house, forcing the medics to go over curbs and cars..Ever heard the term "the Big Red Rad Block"? My opinion is that like structural fires..The adress belongs to the bus! But when called to a fire scene to treat the FF's with the "Union Injuries" the same medics are more than happy to do the right thing. I'm not trying to stir things up, just been on both sides of the coin...besides, Trucks don't take in EMS runs!!!!!

[FireLt1951]

I did not mean to make a blanket statement. What I meant by not getting it is that we do not run medical in firefighting. We have fought it for years because we do not have the apparatus and staffing to take on another 65,000 to 70,000 runs a year.

The medics think we should take their BS runs, thus allowing the city to employ fewer medics. They don't seem to understand that if we do this (first responder & basic EMT), the city will give them less and eventually try to do away with them totally. I respect the medics here, they put up with a lot from the citizenry and the city ( most of our medics wear bullet proof vests). I prefer that EMS stay seperate from firefighting.

The city has cut us both right to the bone and would continue to do so if allowed. Here we only have 41 Engines and the city wants to dedicate over 50-60% of these engines to medical runs. It can't be done here. You would end up with only 15 to 20 Engines covering 140 sq miles.

We have been trained in first responder and use it at fire scenes when needed, but we need to stay seperate and protect their union jobs. If they give it to us, the city will in effect take away the 250+ medics and use nonunion ambulance companies(no more EMS Division) and not raise the firefighting staffing levels. Here EMS is a division of the fire department and should stay that way.

[This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 05-15-2001).]

[HHoffman]

I am 100% for Fire Based EMS. If it is run by people that know what they are doing, ie Officers that back the system, it is a great system. After seeing the for profit EMS rape towns for the bottom line (PROFIT). Tax base run systems are moch better. Patient Care is number 1 in EMS, not the money!

Just my 2 cents.

[Double_Local]

PT Care should be #1 in EMS, but it isn't in any strained system.

For FD based EMS, Pt Care is usually way behind firefighting on the list (as it should be)(and don't give me any crap about how they should be equal...nothing is ever equal).

For Busy systems, shirking the next run is usually behind patient care.

You want to put pt care #1? Hire people who want to do EMS, train them well, give them the best equipment, pay them well, reward them for a job well done, measure their performance, allow them to have input into their jobs, give them good protocols, and discipline them when they perform poorly. Promote people based on quantitative merits. How do you pay for this?

You want to put patient care way down on the list? Make people who don't want to ride the ambulance (firefighters) ride it. Burn the good people you get out on 10 BS runs per 12 hour shift. Give them old, crappy, equipment. Make them hunt and gather supplies. Restrict their protocols. Promote people on their ***-kissing ability.

I have yet to see an urban EMS system where the majority of personnel loved their jobs. Why the hell would you want to take a job where the majority of personnel love their jobs (Firefighting) and pollute it with EMS?

[RADFIRE]

I think firehouse based EMS is better than fire department based EMS for all the reasons stated before. People who want to work EMS are good at EMS as is the case with fire and law enforcement. Cops, fire, and EMS are all good people at their jobs, but very different people.
There are more firehouses than hospitals and ems homes, so it works for availability purposes.
FDNY admin has taken EMS and building code enforcement on for what seems to be political reasons to help the commish get in good with the cities upper echelon. He's throwing the fire and ems guys under the bus.
The FDNY bashing guy running the web page has been trying for some time to attract attention to his mudslinging, but if anything he's making himself look like an idiot. He's disgruntled.
Just my $0.02.

[A Lieutenant]

The FDNY first responder program in NYC is a major frustration for our firefighters. EMS is not what we want to do. However most guys step up just fine when its needed. Unfortunately the Vast Majority of the calls are BS. The engine officer is the I.C. at these calls however they can not make any medical decesions. EMS is emt/paramedics. Their job sucks. And its like a cancer for us. When they walk in (51 Truck K)most times they bypass the officer who has information and go right to the pt. When they do that I say to my guys "we're up" I'm not gonna start anything (thats a loosing battle) But common courtesy says you acknoledge the person your relieving. Their have grips sure. But they never had it so good passing themselves off as FDNY people assume they are firefighters. My 2 cents

[51Truck_K]

Lets not forget the disruption in First Dues!!!