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  • WHAT MAKES A VETERAN TURN INTO AN A-HOLE

    OK, THE DEAL IS HAVE SEVEN YEARS OF SERVICE AND IT JUST ****ES ME OFF TO SEE A VETERAN FIREFIGHTER OR AN OFFICER ACT LIKE AN *** TO OTHERS OF LOWER RANK, AND YEARS (ROOKIE FIREMAN ESPECIALLY)
    I DOUBT THEY WERE HIRED WITH SUCH AN ATTITUDE, SO WHAT COULD HAVE STARTED IT?
    HOW CAN YOU CHANGE A CHILDISH MORON TO FINALLY SAY GOOD MORNING (OR AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE A ROOKIE FIRMAN'S BEING AND WORTH)
    AND IS THERE OTHERS? I AM SURE THEIR ARE!

  • #2
    That definatly sucks!! I am one that would like to see this come to an end. It seems that there is a feeling among firehouses across America that the rookies all have to go through a period of being punished, ignored and made to feel like crap. I have been in the service for 11 years now and would not dream of treating someone that may save my life 5 minutes later in a horrible way. I guess you'll just have to deal with the crap for now but in the meantime just remember to keep your hread up because your just as worthy as he is

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    • #3
      We call these guys "Dinosaurs". I guarantee they were treated the same way when they were new, and they don't care if people in todays society won't put up with that crap. Just ignore them, showing that it bothers you makes it even more fun for them.

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      • #4
        I have gone trough the same thing that you guys are talking about. I have three years of service under my belt. Two years with the department I work for know, and one year with the department that I left in order to take my current position. Lets call the second department, department B the place where I got my start. Well, department B is a big department and plenty busy. However department B has a problem keeping young firefighters because of the low pay. It's not the departments fault though. Some of the 160 members treat rookies (esp. from out of state) like dirt. My theory is that they don't want to get close to these rookies because they'll just leave anyway. I had a few that told me just that. I didn't let it bother me, I wound up leaving to better my opportunities. In the department that I currently work for, department A, I experienced hazing but for a different reason I believe. My theory on that is that the older guys just want to see how you conduct yourself in adverse situations. A trail by fire if you will. I took it in stride and I don't experience the hazing anymore. However in closing, I remember what it felt like and DO NOT treat on coming rookies in the same manner. I think that the older salty vets had this done to them and it is their way of returning the favor. This is an out dated practice and the new generation firefighters don't seem to take part in it. I don't have time for it myself.

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        • #5
          Okay, is the problem them, or you?

          First, identify the problem.
          To make a blanket observation that the oldsters are "Dinosaurs" identifies that you may have a problem with time and experience, i.e., being told what to do by somebody else who does not know everything you do - (hint).
          Chances are that most of the problems are identifiable.
          Actionable might be something else altogether.
          If you are the one having the problem, try this.
          Go to the person giving you problems. Ask them "Can I be as bad as all that?" First, it tips that person off that you know where the problem is coming from and may catch them off-guard enough to give you a straight answer.
          It might be that the old-timers are feeling left out, or feeling pushed out. Think about how you would feel under those circumstances.
          Most of those out there with experience would actually like to have people learn from their experience, however good or bad it may be. Most, too, can also be taught new tricks if the tricks are shown to work better than their old tricks.
          Remember that communication is a two-way street.
          Now, I mentioned that identifying the problem is a lot different that having action taken on the problem. Sometimes the 'virus' has infected the department to the point of total polarization of factions. In this instance, not much will work outside of outside intervention (at least in my experience). In other words, getting two people to rationally discuss a problem is a lot easier than getting 20 people to discuss a problem. (Kind of like the old adage about if you want something totally screwed up or abandoned, let a committee handle it). Egos can be a terrible thing to deal with, too.
          Some can be bruised beyond repair. If that happens, you definitely have a problem that either your superiors should be made aware of for the good of the department, or their superiors, if the superior is the problem.
          As for screwing with rookies, that must be some sort of department 'tradition' as I have not seen this in various places I have lived and worked in. The way to break a tradition is to not do whatever the tradition is. Get a couple new generations of rookies who do not get hazed and you will end the hazing. Yes, that takes time. Live with it. Clean the trucks, work out, or do something else to blow off steam while you wait.
          My two cents, hope it is worth more than that to solving your problems.
          ;-)

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          • #6
            unfortunately your rookie year most people have to put up with some pranks and torture...unless your a kiss *** and then you wont make many friends anyways. I know what you mean about people changing when make rank..the only reason i see it because they have a 1 year probie time also...so they make a example so the chiefs dont demote them...just grin and bear it

            ------------------
            Engine / Squad Co.# 7

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            • #7
              I have seen this happen in the Past Also. I once belonged to a department that had a few guys around that because they were "Buddy Buddy " with Few of the Career Guys one of which eventually became chief {Who may I note I thought were pretty Cool Guys } These Idiots thought they were Super-Human Firefighters and everything everbody else {Volunteers; which they were them-selves} did was wrong. These Guys acted like thier S**t didn't stink -- Most of the Company couldn't Stand them but we delt with them because we had to. They eventually went on to A City Fire Department Job that they lied on the application process {They were not residents as required } But no one could proove it and fiqured we were better off with out them. -- There will always be somebody out there who thinks they are better than the next guy but eventually that somebody will want something or need a favor and....?????? I know I would't budge unless of course it was a life or death situation in which case I set aside all personal diffrences and get the job done

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              • #8

                Aw, whatsa matter? Did somebody hurt the probies feelings? Waaah! Here's some help...maybe you can use your Nomex hood as a crying towel. Ha ha ha, better yet, grow up and be a man. If a probie can't take a little joking or silent treatment in the firehouse, how is he going to handle the abuse he'll get in the streets? No...far be it from this fire service of "today's society" to push a brand new firefighter to excel, to prove himself or to learn more about the career he just started. Of course, this is the same forum where half the people think having a deaf firefighter is "no problem." - "Let's not hurt his feelings by telling him no, he might get someone killed. Besides, we might get sued." What a bunch of crybabies!

                This liberal, Clinton era "let's all feel good about ourselves" attitude is making a joke of the fire service everywhere. We're so worried about being warm and fuzzy we've gotten soft and weak. Rookies are worthless. They don't know jack, and unless they are kept humble enough to know that, they never will know jack. In fact, with the dumbing down that's going on everywhere from grade school to probie school, the only thing some of them come out knowing is how to whine and moan. Of course, at least now they can do it on the internet.

                Why do you think they call it probation, anyway? 'Cause this job ain't for everyone. Most who get through recruit school make it through probation, some don't. The probie is "as worthy" as the veteran? Horse s#-t! How do we know he's not going to drop the line and run down the hallway soiling his pants on his first fire? When he has proven himself worthy, come talk to me.

                A probie should keep his mouth shut, his ears and eyes open. The way he will learn is if he listens to and watches the experienced firemen. A probie should be constantly studying, drilling, or cleaning something. Don't like it? There's the door, leave your gear in my office 'cause there's fifty others lined up looking to take your place.

                Signed,
                A Dinosaur, and proud of it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  IT'S FUNNY HOW YOU USE THE WORDS DUMBING DOWN (YOU PROBABLY SKIDDED THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND GOT YOUR JOB THROUGH A FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER, DID YOU GET THE G.E.D. MAN!). AS SOMEONE WHO IS OUT OF PROBATION I FIND YOUR KIND, ALL TALK, AND WHEN THE **** HITS YOUR THE FIRST TO CALL THE HYDRANT MAN SPOT. NO BROTHER I DON'T THINK YOUR WORTHLESS, YOUR HOLE REPLY SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU ARE IN DIRE NEED OF RETIREMENT, WHICH IS TO SAY BEYOND WORTHLESS!
                  YA SEE FOLKS THIS IS THE PRIME, 100%,USDA APPROVED, GRADE "A" ASSWIPE DESCRIBED, YA JUST CAN'T GET ANY BETTER. SOME MORON EVEN GAVE THIS PEA BRAIN A DESK. (OR SO HE DESCRIBES)
                  NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG PIGLET, YOUR REPLY DOES SHED SOME TRUTH, I AGREE PROBIES SHOULD BE STUDYING, OR DRILLING, BUT SOME OPINIONS SHOULD BE HEARD.
                  AS FAR AS THE INTERNET I FEEL THE A-HOLE RATIO AS GONE UP.
                  "HERE IS TO NOZZLEHOG WHO HAS JUST UPPED THE ANTY"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    NozzleHog... I have to agree with you for the most part. Until you've proven yourself, you're just taking up space. Career or Volunteer, it doesn't really matter now does it? Besides, I had to deal with it, what makes you so much better than me? In all honesty, it probably helped make me the "childish moron", as you so eloquently phrased it, that I am today. Remember, just because the calender says you're not a probie anymore doesn't mean that you've proven anything to anyone. I've found that people (in and out of the fire service) give me the respect that I have EARNED, not the respect that I feel that I am warranted. So, my suggestion would be to quit your whining, muscle up and go out there and SHOW that you deserve the respect that you're apparently dying to get. Remember, if it doesn't kill you, it only serves to make you stronger. Last time I checked, a little "disrespect" never killed anyone. Hey, if nothing else, try considering the possibility that it may not be because they don't trust you or your abilities, they might just not like you! Be safe and good luck growing up.

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                    • #11
                      I'm suspecting this forum is being used mostly by immature users. Is there intelligent life out there? The language being used is only showing your ingnorance and defeating any shred of credibility many of you appear to have. This thread (along with many others lately) is pathetic.

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                      • #12
                        DON'T TYPE IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!!!

                        I don't know about the rest of the posters, but I almost never read posts typed in all caps. How can you take someone seriously who isn't bright enough to know when to capitalize the right words, so they just type in all caps?
                        As far as your rookie punishment goes, take it like a man or get out! You're only making it harder on yourself by fighting it. Our department may only be volunteer, but this holds true for all departments.

                        -Nick

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                        • #13
                          Flame5:
                          You asked for opinions, you got 'em. If some weren't what you wanted to hear, too bad about your luck. Seriously, you can always go to the chief with your problem ..."Chief, nobody likes me, waaah! I want a transfer, waaah, these guys are a--holes".

                          Sounds like you are one those "Probie for life" characters that some departments never seem to flush. But hey, as long as I don't have to work with you, you are good for a laugh, though! ROFL.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Flame 5: Ask Mongo. He seems to know alot about what makes me a dinosaur!

                            NozzleHog: well said. Sounds just like the lecture I had to give a whiney recruit not long ago. How about reading the deaf FF thread and helping me out?

                            Proud as well,

                            Grit

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This happened to me. We have a guy at my company like that. He is the senior driver with 14 years on the job. He is a good guy and does alot of things for our company. He really knows his job and is well respected throughout the dept. He has alot of company pride and expects high standards of his members. He believes our company is the best around. In my dept. drivers are like GODS. They are usually the senior members of the company and the drivers unofficially run the company on their shift. And you don't want to **** them off. He, as a rule that was passed down from his driver to him, does not bother with or talk to probies unless he absolutely has to. And you guess it, I was his probie. I didn't understand his reasoning, but I was to scared to ask. Did I feel intimidated by him,YES. So I just did what I was told to do. I obeyed the strict rules I was given, I worked hard and learned what I needed to learn and alot more. I really busted my a*# during my probation, doing extra things, hoping to gain his acceptance. And I did, sooner than I expected. After I got off probation I figured him out. He used acceptance power to see if I had what I takes to be a member of his company. It was his way of pushing me to excel, to do the best I can. And the reward was acceptance from him, which led to acceptance from the other members. Like I said this guy had a good rep on the job. Now that I figured him out it wasn't that bad. Did I think he was an A-hole when I was his probie,YES. Do I think their are other ways to motivate people, YES. Was his way effective,YES. I learned that acceptance is a powerful thing. ....... Now it's my turn. I am a driver now, and I have a probie. Will I ignore my probie,NO. Will I talk to him,YES (only business). Do I intimidate him,MAYBE. Do I expect him to work hard and bust his a*# like I did,YES. Does he feel he's being treated differently than the other members,YES. Do I treat him like one of the guys,NO...He's a probationer, he's not one of the guys,yet.

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