Wanna work with a deaf firefighter?

[Grit]

Mongo, I am truly in awe of you, and your obvious "bagillion" years of experience.

To answer your question on blacks: The firefighter who I mentioned in an earlier post that I had so much respect for, when others wouldn't even talk to him, is black.

To answer your question on women: One of the few firefighters that I would follow anywhere is a female firefighter that mentored me when I started.

Once again, I am in awe of you and how well you know me.

Staggering

[jj1967]

I haven't been doing this all that long...just 18 years. So based on my limited experience, having been on a volunteer department with a deaf FF I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Our deaf FF did interior ops. Most of the working fires I've been in I've had problems communicating with hearing FF. How many times as an officer have you had to grab your nozzleman's shoulder and point? The big danger is him getting seperated and not being able to hear his way back to his team. What does this mean? It means as his officer I have to be careful to make sure that doesn't happen...just like I do with rookies and the heroes with two years of experience who think they're veterans.

If I were on FDNY or LA County would I want a deaf FF? No. In a volunteer organization, I don't have a problem with it. Just my two cents.

[Grit]

Someone please explain to me why it's Ok for a deaf guy to be in PGFD, but not be in FDNY.

Mongo help me out here.

It's hard for us idiot dinosaurs to absorb complicated questions like this.

You folks are too much fun.

[FireRebel]

Grit,
$$$$ is the main reason I can think of...lets face it most volunteer Depts have plenty of issues in recruitment and retention, so they can and are willing to take any and all able bodies...
please dont take it as I am saying a person with a disablity is just another body! career Depts have a wide array of choices in manpower to choose from and most have stringent medical physicals that they need to pass..

[This message has been edited by FireRebel (edited 04-18-2001).]

[Mr.Meaner]

What's up with this 'real world' baloney?

Where is this 'Real World' fire department:
a) in your dreams?
b) in your mind?
c) in books, TV, or movies?
d) all of the above?

[mongofire_99]

I am truly in awe of you, and your obvious "bagillion" years of experience.

Never said I had a bagillion years experience, and it's my personal opinion that none of us you should stand in awe of no man - they will ALWAYS let you down.

To answer your question on blacks: The firefighter who I mentioned in an earlier post that I had so much respect for, when others wouldn't even talk to him, is black.

To answer your question on women: One of the few firefighters that I would follow anywhere is a female firefighter that mentored me when I started.

So? Neither of these statements addresses my comment. Admittedly, one of my EMS mentors was a woman and it took a while for me to get used to her working along side for that simple reason.

Once again, I am in awe of you and how well you know me.

Never claimed to know you, just that I know folks that feel the same way you do on this issue.

The same could be said about you and your real world BS. If we're not in lock-step with your line of thinking we're in fantasy land? How well you know us.

Someone please explain to me why it's Ok for a deaf guy to be in PGFD, but not be in FDNY. Mongo help me out here.

OK.

If there is a separation of fireground job tasks based on ability available, similar to the red hats you mentioned previously, then in my opinion it is not OK to automatically boot the deaf guy from consideration. If so, then you should boot all the red hats.

However if your job description require that ALL fireground personnel (except for officer positions that need to be risen through the ranks) shall be capable of inside operations, then in my opinion it is OK to automatically eliminate the deaf guy from consideration if the fireground is where he wants to be.

Does FDNY have the equivalent of your red hats?

Are they staffed non-firefighting positions?

Are they line firefighters on special assignment?

Are they line firefighters on light duty?

It's hard for us idiot dinosaurs to absorb complicated questions like this.

My personal experience is with a little time and an open mind it'll get easier.

We still haven't been told (if we have I missed it) what the guys level of hearing loss is and how well he hears with hearing aids.

[This message has been edited by mongofire_99 (edited 04-18-2001).]

[thefyreman]

I can't believe that there are so many people that would really think that it would be a workable arrangement to allow a physically handicapped person to become a firefighter! Sure, it might work in the smaller departments - I've seen my share of old guys that you know can't do any heavy labor any more so you let them drive and operate the pump, but if the job duties are going to be modified for one, then they would have to be modified for the next person with a similar, but different handicap. Oh yeah, sure we could assign the deaf guy tasks that might minimize his chances of getting himself or someone else in trouble, but who's gonna decide what he can and can't be allowed to do? And when the blind guy comes in and wants to be a firefighter someone will have to decide what will be suitable tasks for HIM to be allowed to do? And when the guy in a wheelchair comes in...etc. etc. - I would not want to be on the fireground, or any other emergency scene for that matter, where I would have to remember the particular abilities or tasks each person can or cannot perform and then try to assign duties accordingly. The fact of life is, there are many, many jobs that physically handicapped people are not suitable candidates for...and firefighting just happens to be one of them!

[Break-N-Entry]

Mine is the 67th message posted on this subject - yet no one, NO ONE has posted a message saying that the deaf firefighters they knew, or actually had experiences working with, couldn't do what was asked, or weren't able to work within their limits. Where is the proof to all these negative comments? Where are the bad experiences? I guess there aren't any. If there were any they would have appeared by now! Give the guy a chance - why not try something new and treat people the same way you want to be treated?

[Eng522ine]

This is utterly unbelievable. I cannot believe that there are intelligent (at least semi-intelligent) competent firefighters that would have no problem with a disabled person being in the second dangerous place known to man, the fireground. The American fire service lost 92 firefighters, that had no disabilities, last year alone. Do you want to introduce a deaf person into an environment that's this dangerous? Why not let deaf people join the military? Same reason, you should not introduce any person into an environment where they have a higher than likely chance of hurting themselves and endangering the lives of others.

I don't care if you have a manpower shortage or you have potential volunteers lined up around the block, you are foolish to put this man on a fireground. I have no problem with him performing support functions back at the station where he is not in danger or endangering others.

Mr Meaner... I lean towards option e) none of the above, he's simply a hazard

Mongo... You're damn right this guy shouldn't drive. ANYTHING. In addition, I'd rather have a "98# weakling" that could HEAR me yelling or maybe HEAR my PASS alarm going off or HEAR instructions given to him at a Haz-Mat or HEAR anything else that a hearing firefighter could.

[NozzleHog]

Originally posted by thefyreman:
I would not want to be on the fireground, or any other emergency scene for that matter, where I would have to remember the particular abilities or tasks each person can or cannot perform and then try to assign duties accordingly. The fact of life is, there are many, many jobs that physically handicapped people are not suitable candidates for...and firefighting just happens to be one of them!

Thanks for a refreshing breath of common sense Fyreman, Eng522ine, you too Grit.

To all those who think a deaf (and in my book that means deaf, as in cannot hear) firefighter is OK even for exterior work, I hope you never have to hear something like this: "Hey Joe, watch out for those electric wires! Joe, the ladder, watch out for the..." BZZZZZZZZT "Joe? Joe?"
I'm sure his widow will be happy that you were so politically correct and sensitive to his needs.




[This message has been edited by NozzleHog (edited 04-18-2001).]

[Captainluke]

Everyone has a job to do.... even ones with disabilities.. many think that because you are disabled you cannot do many things. un forunately many of the things we do in the fire service require hearing. the sound differential of and impending backdraft, the noise made when the fire is over top of you hidden by the smoke. The whistling sound of LP tanks in a garage fire hidden under the debris just before it bleves. Little things that we hear before all things can and usually do go wrong. I am not totally against having someone with a disability HELP on a fire ground operation. They can be quite useful as long as the situation or job they do is adapting to their disability. Myself, I would never put a deaf person into a burning building, but there is other things outside they can do...

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Douglas R. Luke
Captain Monon fire department

[Frkoe2]

Im with you grit...some of these people scare me too.

[FireWood1]

Just to add a little humor to this forum. I've noticed quite a bit that people mention we don't let deaf folks in the military. Well, we do let people in with an IQ of 4. Quite frankly, I'd rather work with a deaf guy. By the way, I am a military firefighter.

Offutt AFB Fire Dept, Omaha Nebraska. Currently serving at Al Jaber Air Base, Kuwait. 40, yes, 40 miles from the Iraqi border.

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Michael Wood
FF/EMT

[lady_in_turnouts]

Ok, so the military wont accept deaf people, or blind people or a person with one limb. Knock those people out of eligibility for the fire service right...Now technically, the military isnt supposed to take homosexuals.So lets take that group out of the running for fire dept positions.The military has weight standards--oh man, I just lost half my fire dept. What else..the pregnant women that take hardship discharges from the service, dont even offer them a job as a ff unless they agreed to be sterilized, god forbid they be pregnant on the job.Any of you guys colorblind, your options are limited depending what branch you are in but hey, be a ff and we can guarantee you a job cleaning the head or doing paperwork. I'm sorry but IMO the military is a bit different. War is an uncontrollable situation. The fireground is more controlled. I know I'll probably get slammed for that remark but its true. You can train and train for war, but when you're there its a whole different thing. Most of the training I've gotten in the fire service is exactly whats applied on scene. The gentleman from MD isnt out to kill himself or anyone else, he wants to do a job, so give him a chance.

[D Kelly]

Most of you pro-deaf folks must work for vol. departments, it's an automatic disqual in most paid departments. I work for a city that responds to over 6000 calls a year and can tell you we are WAY to busy and understaffed to sheperd a deaf firefighter around. Every crewmember MUST be able to use a radio or they don't work..period. We don't have the luxury of any slack positions on any calls,with only 2 or 3 on an engine you could be needed for rescue or interior work on EVERY fire. Besides, it's a moot point in this state...deafness will prevent you from getting past the medical review ( automatic disqualification...just like failing the psyc test, the agility test, the written test, drug test or oral interview..to name a few)volunteer or paid.
I would be happy to work with a disabled firefighter in a non-emergency role, but on the firegrounds I work on, not hearing WILL get you killed.