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PGFD gone bankrupt!

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  • cpr4u
    Guest replied
    I don't know what to think about all this. As for 40+ calls a year on $8,000. Try running about 250,000 calls on $8,000. I don't think you could do it. That is why the budget is so large for PGFD. Just something to think about.

    Leave a comment:


  • jasonnremtb
    Guest replied
    i can not believe the budgets you guys say are to small, we cover close to 20 sq. miles with a mini pumper that's a 1972 model, and a 4th hand 1970ish pumper/tanker. we run 40+ calls a year on 8,000 dollars. so remember it can always be worse.

    FF/EMT
    5 years service
    just my thoughts

    Leave a comment:


  • SBrooks
    Guest replied
    Why is it fair to make a firefighter work 56 hours a week, away from his family, in harm's way, without paying him overtime. I have no problem with the county's 42h week, and I have no problem with the county approving leave that has been earned and scheduled.

    There is no doubt that the county fd could improve its management though.

    [This message has been edited by SBrooks (edited 04-15-2001).]

    Leave a comment:


  • jam
    Guest replied
    After reading all of the comments in this forum I felt the need to jump in. I have first hand knowledge of the budget process and have seen it at work. And let me tell you, it is a tough job trying to come up with a budget when the people charged with giving you the budget information you need keep giving you a different set of numbers each meeting you go to. They couldn't even give final numbers from last year's budget. These people I talk about are the county budget people who work for the County Exec.
    Yes the buck stops with the Chief and he's the one who is going to have to take the heat but let's be fair to him because he had the same problem doing his budget. I personally think that the volunteers are losing one of the best friends they had in a long time with the Chief's retirement and it scares me to think of what might be coming.
    I would like to correct a statement in one of the replies about the volunteers losing money every year. The volunteer budget for the next fiscal year is 6% more than this year's budget.
    The biggest thing that killed the budget on the volunteer side was fuel, the County bean counters severely under estimated the fuel costs. And yes the overtime on the career side. I don’t know about anyone else, but were I work, if you put in a leave slip and there is no one to cover for you, your leave slip is denied. Not true in PG. But that is a different story. When management is allowed to belong to the same union as the rank and file you are not going to have very good management. And in my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems in PG.
    Until PG gets some politicians that don’t worry more about having the backing of a union instead of what's in the best interest of the tax paying citizen you are going to have messes like this. If they were really interested in saving money, (approximately $5,000,000.00) they would change the work schedule from 24/72, which is nothing but a part time job with full time benefits to 24/48. This would give them an entire shift to re-assign where necessary and cut out all the overtime. But this is only my opinion. Keep the faith and stay safe.

    Leave a comment:


  • tillerman14
    Guest replied
    Hey TowerPower I heard the county is cutting the 4th shift. Instead of 24/72 it will be 24/48. Is it true??

    Leave a comment:


  • SBrooks
    Guest replied
    I read in the WASHINGTON POST article about Ron leaving for FFM / ICHIEFS that he led an 850 member department. My question is...where the h*ll are these 850 people?

    With 850 members he (or the next chief) could staff...

    10 24h Stations with 4 men
    2 24h B/Cs
    1 24h D/C
    35 40h/wk Stations with 4 men
    6 40h/wk B/Cs
    20 24h Ambulances/Medic Units
    20 12h (Peak Time) Ambulances/Medic Units
    Each of these would be rostered with extra men for AL/SL/etc, the above numbers would be MINIMUM daily staffing.

    He would be left with roughly 200 people for staff/administrative/prevention/support positions.

    Just a suggestion to whoever the next chief is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dalmatian90
    Guest replied
    I don't know when PG County finalizes next year's budget...but this is the time of the year towns in my area start to send their budgets for final approval before the new fiscal year starts on July 1.

    In the grand scheme of politics, it might not be coincendental that they're so "tight" on money this year that they might change responses to save money. See, we really need more money for fuel & repairs. See, those ERT positions that got cut only cost us more $$$ in overtime.

    The other side is just as dangerous -- if a department is run like a clock, keeps it's budget under target and provides just as good service as it had planned, then the financial people go "Oh look, they don't need as much money as they had last year. Let's cut their budget." If you directly report to such managers, it's not in your best interest to save your expenses for the end of the year -- they might deny the purchases and cut the budget since you had "too much money."

    I'm speculating, but such shenagins are certainly not unprecedented in government finance.

    When I was going to college I worked seasonally for the State Parks. One year during a tight budget season we closed a campground in our unit that was right on the state highway for "budget reasons." Of course, we employed just as many fulltime and seasonal maintainers, patrolmen, and lifeguards as the year before. Even kept open the other campground 1.5 miles away, so we had the same evening shift staffing; plus we still had to patrol the whole park so we spent just as much gas as when we had two parks open. We were even told we couldn't do certain things specifically to make it seem we where understaffed. Net effect: Same expenses, but less revenue since fewer campsites could be rented. Of course it was all politics -- the State DEP trying to show the "pain" of the budget meanwhile spending just as much as always but providing less services.

    Leave a comment:


  • macsen
    Guest replied
    Halligan_84 is right on the money. Tight budgets are the norm this late in the fiscal year. For PG to tighten up on unnecessary expenses just means the budget is stretched thin -- not that they're "bankrupt."

    All it takes are a few unexpected or underbudgetted expenses over the course of the year to screw up the best budget projections. It isn't the end of the world. =)

    macsen


    ------------------
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    8 years fire captain
    20 years fire service
    BS Fire Science
    FO-II,FSI-II,SO,HMT,PSE
    Past Volunteer

    Leave a comment:


  • Halligan84
    Guest replied
    Are there really NO other departments that don't get these kinds of warnings toward the end of the budget year? Thats what it sounds like to me. It's an annual thing for me at work and for certain items as a volunteer. Never thought of changing response assignments to save fuel, but I'll bet that doesn't happen either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Justme
    Guest replied
    One thing that everyone should keep in mind here, there are TWO budgets that are on the brink of disaster. The 5100 budget, which is mostly career salaries and benefits, and the 5200 budget, which is station management, supplies, utilities, appratus repairs, etc.

    The 5100 budget is probably shot mostly to overtime as was previoulsy stated - and maybe its a ploy from the County Exec. to say I told you we didn't have the money for all these new ERT's. Unfortunately only the Fire Chief can answer where this money went and why the spending isn't in line with predictions, but why should he care, he's retiring to take up the Fallen Firefighters Foundation and what else.... oh yeah, the TREASURER of ICHIEFS.

    As for the 5200 budget, we have the VOLUNTEER FIRE COMMISSION to look to for the answers. Obviously unforseen apparatus repairs and station maintenance can eat into this budget, but that should not have an effect on station supplies and management. The latter are approved on an individual basis by each districts commissioner, and each station is alloted a budget for these supplies. If a commissioner is allowing a station to go over budget for supplies, he should be held responsible. If he sees a stations supply budget going haywire, he should investigate.

    It is unfortunate that both the 5100 and 5200 budgets do not get the funding they desire, each year both the Fire Chief and the Commission have to plead their case in front of the County COuncil and still come back with a cut of what they propose. Maybe once the Fire Department begins to fail as badly as the school system in the county has, we can get the funding we deserve.

    Oh and if anyone runs short on TP, call Mount Rainier, I hear they have a whole basement full.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grit
    Guest replied
    HOT2HA you're right about the OT, unless of course it's to help the vollies. We had one paid guy that was supposed to work this last Thanksgiving, only to have him/her no-show the last minute.

    You don't wanna help us, fine. Don't promise a body and pull it when it's too late to replace with career or vollie.

    Grit

    Leave a comment:


  • hot DAMN
    Guest replied
    for the person that tried to quote Kentlands website, remember to take EVERYTHING you read with a large brick of salt to put it nicely. its about the same as the staffing levels they give "Engine 331,333 and Chief 33 with 12" when they actually have 1/2 that.
    But as not to offend anybody, they are damn good firemen (at least when i was still in the area)its just that some people tend to exaggerate the truths

    Leave a comment:


  • hot2ha
    Guest replied
    I am from PG Co. and I come from a long list of Volunteers and I have a few facts about where the money went.1) Overtime, this county pays out a rack of overtime. You have Batt. Chiefs who move paisman around for there pleasure and cause 2 months of overtime for several stations. You have another station that has 4 shift spots and 3 shiftmen. Overtime Overtime Overtime. Cars just about anybody gets one to take home and do personal stuff with and they use county fuel to fill up. Durning the hours of 7am - 3pm the paidman take the equipment out to joy ride they go to other stations to visit, To go shopping,to the gym. And then we can talk about Ocean City Maryland, each year the volunteer Convention the Paid Fire Chief details a rack of Paidman to the beach for 1 weeks of fun in the sun partying, While they are on the clock just think all that overtime. The paid get money every year for having EMT ( a class they have to have for there job)The volunteer's money get less and less every year. And you all wonder why we are broke.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnusn971
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Brian Dunlap:

    Maybe I'm Wrong with who is the busiest and personally who cares...I'm only Quoting what I've Read on Company 33 In PGFD...The Nations Busiest Volunteer Fire Department ---Sorry bfd1071 if I mis-calculated your Stats You Seem to be Up on the Fact that FDNY is busier then PGFD....Although this may be True can you back up what you say ? Not trying to Argue with you so don't take it that way but be able to back-up what you say
    You really needed to see stats to know that the FDNY is far and away the busiest Department in the US? No offense, but have you been living under a rock since about 1963? Second, I believe NYC has Eng Co's that run more than this 33.

    Doc DC3

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  • Brian Dunlap
    Guest replied
    bfd1071...

    Cool, I can Live with that.. When I'm Wrong I'll admitt it.....This time I was wrong...Nice Job with the numbers from What you wrote FDNY is a far Busier Department and probably not bank-rupt like PGFD may soon be

    Peace

    Leave a comment:

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