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PGFD gone bankrupt!

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  • PGFD gone bankrupt!

    PGFD has run out of money! A memo today states:
    only EMS supplies and PPE will be issued
    no "unnecessary" repairs will be made to apparatus
    dispatch assignments may be modified to save fuel

    This isnt a joke! This is why there has been so much talk in this forum about the volunteer companies sticking together--PGFD cant even balance their books or afford fuel and toliet paper. Apparently all 47 fire stations have been told that there will be no more equipment issued for the rest of the year. Something breaks? Your crew better chip in or plan on doing without.

    I know other deptartments face lean times, but this? No fuel, no toliet paper, no replacement or new firefighting equipment?
    So be warned- if it can happen to us it can happen to you!

  • #2
    Why did this happen? Is this a case of mismanagement of funds? This is ridicules that they are broke someone obviously hasn't been doing there job correctly. Most important of all what are they doing if anything to fix this problem?
    Around here the majority of the stations all volunteer pretty much are self supportive. The county doesn't buy us anything and in most cases our individual municipalities don't give us much so we raise our own money.
    I haven't been following the threads about Prince George County. So I don't know a great deal about what's going on.


    • #3
      Can anyone out there shed some light on how one of the best fire dept.'s in world with 47 stations can run out of money only 4 months into the year? This would explain where rescue squad 27 and 2 have been along with tower33. I'm just wondering what does an ERT make starting out a year? What do the ranking officers make in PG county? How does the county tax for fire protection in
      PG, then disperse the money to dept.'s?Well, I'm really sorry to hear that one of the best fire dept.'s is hurting so bad. My hats off to the dept.'s and FF's that have to make it work the rest of the year. You have a big job ahead of you.

      [This message has been edited by Engineman (edited 04-12-2001).]


      • #4

        Most budget operations run on a July 1 - June 30 fiscal year. So it is not uncommon for budgets to get tight around this time of the year. I don't believe that Page County would allow "members to chip in or do without". If major repairs are needed, I think that the county will fix it. You can always "amend the budget" if you go over for good reason.

        I don't believe this is as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be. If you need something, and it is important, then I am sure you will recieve it. However, they don't want any "unnecessary" spending going on. We all know that this happens every now and then.

        I may be wrong with this post, but I have dealt with budgets and budget crunches enough to know, that sometimes you have to go w/o unnecessary items. If I am wrong, than I feel sorry for your situation and the management styles you have to work with. It would be extremely pathetic if the situation is correct.

        Good Luck and Stay Safe guys.


        • #5
          I'm with Adler here both in Iowa and with his statement. Budgets we all know are projections and projections often get tossed out the window. If the county cut the PGFD budget then the membership needs to make the public aware of this. If they didn't fund it well enough form the get go someone's head should be on the platter for extreme mismanagement. As Adler said maybe things look different from this part of the country but I know we sometimes have to squeeze on the little things to make it through the year but damn NO TOILET PAPER!?!?!
          I have read about and admired the PGFD for years I pray to god that someone steps up and takes care of one of America's greatest departments...vollie or career

          I shall fear no evil, for I am a Firefighter


          • #6
            This Department is In my Opinon One of the Best Around. Hell the Busiest Engine Company in the Nation {Company 33} is located in PG County. I have seen this Department in action, Have seen the Equipment and visited a few of the Facilities. How can a department that handles thousands and thousands of runs, Employs dozens of Career Members, and claims to be the best and busiest in the world be in this much Financial Ruin ? Didn't anyone see this comming ? And Now there is a chance PGFD will be getting sued for not allowing a deaf applicant a chance to become a member { Thats a whole diffrent forum } Should he win how will PG Pay for that ? Where did all thier Money Go ? I Don't know much about setting up budgets but One would think Individual Line Items would be set aside for things like fuel, Equipment Repairs, and Yes....The All Important SH** Paper for the Stations. Obviously Funds were Mis-Managed in one way or another and the person or persons responsible should be terminated {Thus Saving the County A couple of salaries } -- I seriously don't think Responses should be cut to save Fuel and somebodies house that burns {This Happens almost daily in PG County} Doesn't want to hear the FD had No Money For Gas to put in the Truck to come to thier house -- The County Bosses dropped the ball on this one but Somehow I see them Blaiming the Career and Volunteers of the County for something just to take the heat off them.


            • #7
              Busiest engine in the nation, E-33? I thought DCFD engine 10 was the busiest? As for the busiest dept? FDNY is, PGFD is not even close.

              ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**


              • #8
                Originally posted by bfd1071:
                Busiest engine in the nation, E-33? I thought DCFD engine 10 was the busiest? As for the busiest dept? FDNY is, PGFD is not even close.

                Maybe I'm Wrong with who is the busiest and personally who cares...I'm only Quoting what I've Read on Company 33 In PGFD...The Nations Busiest Volunteer Fire Department ---Sorry bfd1071 if I mis-calculated your Stats You Seem to be Up on the Fact that FDNY is busier then PGFD....Although this may be True can you back up what you say ? Not trying to Argue with you so don't take it that way but be able to back-up what you say


                • #9
                  >>Although this may be True can you back up what you say ? Not trying to Argue with you so don't take it that way but be able to back-up what you say<<

                  Yup, FDNY total calls 1,468,918
                  Fire calls 381,537
                  False alarms 66,078

                  PGFD Total calls 111,140

                  ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**


                  • #10

                    Cool, I can Live with that.. When I'm Wrong I'll admitt it.....This time I was wrong...Nice Job with the numbers from What you wrote FDNY is a far Busier Department and probably not bank-rupt like PGFD may soon be



                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brian Dunlap:

                      Maybe I'm Wrong with who is the busiest and personally who cares...I'm only Quoting what I've Read on Company 33 In PGFD...The Nations Busiest Volunteer Fire Department ---Sorry bfd1071 if I mis-calculated your Stats You Seem to be Up on the Fact that FDNY is busier then PGFD....Although this may be True can you back up what you say ? Not trying to Argue with you so don't take it that way but be able to back-up what you say
                      You really needed to see stats to know that the FDNY is far and away the busiest Department in the US? No offense, but have you been living under a rock since about 1963? Second, I believe NYC has Eng Co's that run more than this 33.

                      Doc DC3


                      • #12
                        I am from PG Co. and I come from a long list of Volunteers and I have a few facts about where the money went.1) Overtime, this county pays out a rack of overtime. You have Batt. Chiefs who move paisman around for there pleasure and cause 2 months of overtime for several stations. You have another station that has 4 shift spots and 3 shiftmen. Overtime Overtime Overtime. Cars just about anybody gets one to take home and do personal stuff with and they use county fuel to fill up. Durning the hours of 7am - 3pm the paidman take the equipment out to joy ride they go to other stations to visit, To go shopping,to the gym. And then we can talk about Ocean City Maryland, each year the volunteer Convention the Paid Fire Chief details a rack of Paidman to the beach for 1 weeks of fun in the sun partying, While they are on the clock just think all that overtime. The paid get money every year for having EMT ( a class they have to have for there job)The volunteer's money get less and less every year. And you all wonder why we are broke.


                        • #13
                          for the person that tried to quote Kentlands website, remember to take EVERYTHING you read with a large brick of salt to put it nicely. its about the same as the staffing levels they give "Engine 331,333 and Chief 33 with 12" when they actually have 1/2 that.
                          But as not to offend anybody, they are damn good firemen (at least when i was still in the area)its just that some people tend to exaggerate the truths


                          • #14
                            HOT2HA you're right about the OT, unless of course it's to help the vollies. We had one paid guy that was supposed to work this last Thanksgiving, only to have him/her no-show the last minute.

                            You don't wanna help us, fine. Don't promise a body and pull it when it's too late to replace with career or vollie.



                            • #15
                              One thing that everyone should keep in mind here, there are TWO budgets that are on the brink of disaster. The 5100 budget, which is mostly career salaries and benefits, and the 5200 budget, which is station management, supplies, utilities, appratus repairs, etc.

                              The 5100 budget is probably shot mostly to overtime as was previoulsy stated - and maybe its a ploy from the County Exec. to say I told you we didn't have the money for all these new ERT's. Unfortunately only the Fire Chief can answer where this money went and why the spending isn't in line with predictions, but why should he care, he's retiring to take up the Fallen Firefighters Foundation and what else.... oh yeah, the TREASURER of ICHIEFS.

                              As for the 5200 budget, we have the VOLUNTEER FIRE COMMISSION to look to for the answers. Obviously unforseen apparatus repairs and station maintenance can eat into this budget, but that should not have an effect on station supplies and management. The latter are approved on an individual basis by each districts commissioner, and each station is alloted a budget for these supplies. If a commissioner is allowing a station to go over budget for supplies, he should be held responsible. If he sees a stations supply budget going haywire, he should investigate.

                              It is unfortunate that both the 5100 and 5200 budgets do not get the funding they desire, each year both the Fire Chief and the Commission have to plead their case in front of the County COuncil and still come back with a cut of what they propose. Maybe once the Fire Department begins to fail as badly as the school system in the county has, we can get the funding we deserve.

                              Oh and if anyone runs short on TP, call Mount Rainier, I hear they have a whole basement full.


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