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RIT Training props

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  • FyredUp
    started a topic RIT Training props

    RIT Training props

    Howdy everyone!

    I am looking for some innovative RIT training props. Does anyone have any designs they would like to share?

    I have already built the Denver prop designed by Dale Pekel from Wauwatosa Fire as seen on Youtube. I also have a restricted passage prop, and I am building the box entanglement prop. .

  • Here and there
    replied
    Breaching and forcible entry props are also very handy. I find due to the fact we often have restrictions on what we can do with borrowed buildings, people are often overly gentle when it comes to doing it for real. As they say you play as you train, and for many most of the practice is OJT because breaking doors, popping locks and punching holes through a wall can get expensive for the training budget.

    I don't have any links but I've seen a few good breaching props using panels of plywood, sheet rock, hardy board etc, good forcible entry props are harder to find, as I'm not sure how you repeatedly force a door without chewing through a fair bit of hardware.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    Yepper, I don't want to argue with you. I have a plan on how I want to teach this and the scenarios come later. Your emphasis is on unplanned RIT scenarios. I think we are trying to get to the same place just taking different routes.
    That pretty much sums it up.

    I'll be very honest and admit that I am given very little time to teach rapid intervention at any of my 3 departments. There are a lot of reasons ranging from attendance requirements that I wish were much more stringent to the need to cover EMS, extrication, etc. to the fact that all 3 departments tend to have rotating doors where we are continually trying to teach the basics to the most recent bodies through the door. Excuses? No. But reality, which makes dedicating more than a couple of nights a year to rapid intervention a problem.

    So it's more effective for me to throw curve balls into some of the other training that we do. Is it the best way? Maybe, or maybe not, but it's the way that works in these 3 departments.

    Peace out.

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    ....... Yup.
    Yepper, I don't want to argue with you. I have a plan on how I want to teach this and the scenarios come later. Your emphasis is on unplanned RIT scenarios. I think we are trying to get to the same place just taking different routes.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not if you think that this is more important than teaching proper removal techniques. Do you have your firefighters then hook up the RIT pack and recharge their air? Use webbing or a stokes to remove the downed firefighter? Call for additional help to assist in removal? Because if you aren't what really are they learning?

    When you are initially developing your RIT you need systematic, repetitive, training to build skills. When I go teach a RIT class they expect things like the Denver Drill, methods of downed firefighter removal, restricted passage rescue, self rescue techniques, and more. I occasionally will take a firefighter and bury them under debris as part of the training, but that alone is meaningless if they haven't had previous RIT skills training.

    I think this may be another instance where we will just have to agree to disagree.
    ....... Yup.

    Leave a comment:


  • slackjawedyokel
    replied
    sounds like you two are talking apples and oranges , or maybe apples /Satsuma's ---- what fired up is saying is you gotta have a solid foundation , then throw the occasional wrench at them. https://www.facebook.com/30790621970...type=3&theater

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And clearly I mentioned props - 3" hose, chain link fence and cargo nets.

    Those are all aids used to facilitate learning, and all have a very relevant place in rapid intervention training.
    Not if you think that this is more important than teaching proper removal techniques. Do you have your firefighters then hook up the RIT pack and recharge their air? Use webbing or a stokes to remove the downed firefighter? Call for additional help to assist in removal? Because if you aren't what really are they learning?

    When you are initially developing your RIT you need systematic, repetitive, training to build skills. When I go teach a RIT class they expect things like the Denver Drill, methods of downed firefighter removal, restricted passage rescue, self rescue techniques, and more. I occasionally will take a firefighter and bury them under debris as part of the training, but that alone is meaningless if they haven't had previous RIT skills training.

    I think this may be another instance where we will just have to agree to disagree.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 05-08-2016, 06:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    But again CLEARLY my post asks for ideas on PROPS for RIT training.
    And clearly I mentioned props - 3" hose, chain link fence and cargo nets.

    Those are all aids used to facilitate learning, and all have a very relevant place in rapid intervention training.

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First of all, I never stated that formal RIT training with props never had it's place. It does as a basic foundation. My point was that the members in both of my departments rarely see "RIT Training" written on the schedule. IT's built into other training. Firefighter emergencies occur without being scheduled and I want them to know that they may encounter and have to deal with a rapid intervention emergency in any training drill that they may be involved with.

    Just the other night we had a brush fire drill and about 25 minutes in we had a member "go down" after being hit by a snake. The members had to deal with that simulated emergency. Then I had one of the members on the stokes go down with a cardiac event.

    From the get go I had no intention of completeing this drill as a brush fire drill. From the moment the training was scheduled as a brush fire drill, it was going to be a RIT drill, but nobody knew. They came to the station expecting an easy night and I gave them a very hard night. And it worked.

    As far as I'm concerned, those situations are all props. Props that they cannot study ahead of time and prepare for. Props that they have not been through before and complete on auto=pilot because they have done it 5 times previously.

    Yes, formal, scheduled training with props has it's place as a limited part of preparing the guys for emergencies, but IMO, giving them something they have never seen before as a major part of RIT training is far more important. Just my opinion.
    But again CLEARLY my post asks for ideas on PROPS for RIT training.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    LA, I could not possibly disagree more with you on your feelings about RIT training. You have to train people in different methods of getting firefighters out of buildings, or entrapments. Things like the Denver Drill using the wall/window prop are an example. if you don't train people on how to move a downed firefighter out of a basement window, or an upper story window, odds are very good you will be unsuccessful when the incident actually occurs. This type of training takes repetition and involves far more than throwing a piece of fence or hose on top of a firefighter.

    Proficiency with techniques and equipment, like the FEPS, Columbus Kit, using your bailout kit to lower a firefighter out of a window, takes familiarization with the equipment and repetitive trainings until you can't do it wrong.

    Further you are dragging my simple topic asking for RIT training prop ideas off topic. Neither one of your posts answers the question that I originally posted.
    First of all, I never stated that formal RIT training with props never had it's place. It does as a basic foundation. My point was that the members in both of my departments rarely see "RIT Training" written on the schedule. IT's built into other training. Firefighter emergencies occur without being scheduled and I want them to know that they may encounter and have to deal with a rapid intervention emergency in any training drill that they may be involved with.

    Just the other night we had a brush fire drill and about 25 minutes in we had a member "go down" after being hit by a snake. The members had to deal with that simulated emergency. Then I had one of the members on the stokes go down with a cardiac event.

    From the get go I had no intention of completeing this drill as a brush fire drill. From the moment the training was scheduled as a brush fire drill, it was going to be a RIT drill, but nobody knew. They came to the station expecting an easy night and I gave them a very hard night. And it worked.

    As far as I'm concerned, those situations are all props. Props that they cannot study ahead of time and prepare for. Props that they have not been through before and complete on auto=pilot because they have done it 5 times previously.

    Yes, formal, scheduled training with props has it's place as a limited part of preparing the guys for emergencies, but IMO, giving them something they have never seen before as a major part of RIT training is far more important. Just my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    LA, I could not possibly disagree more with you on your feelings about RIT training. You have to train people in different methods of getting firefighters out of buildings, or entrapments. Things like the Denver Drill using the wall/window prop are an example. if you don't train people on how to move a downed firefighter out of a basement window, or an upper story window, odds are very good you will be unsuccessful when the incident actually occurs. This type of training takes repetition and involves far more than throwing a piece of fence or hose on top of a firefighter.

    Proficiency with techniques and equipment, like the FEPS, Columbus Kit, using your bailout kit to lower a firefighter out of a window, takes familiarization with the equipment and repetitive trainings until you can't do it wrong.

    Further you are dragging my simple topic asking for RIT training prop ideas off topic. Neither one of your posts answers the question that I originally posted.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by Bones42 View Post
    No offense, LaFire, but for RIT/FAST training....your not the guy I'd be looking for to lead it. Hose or netting while on hose advancement is pretty standard training for all firefighters. Hose advancement is not even part of our RIT/FAST.
    True hose advancement is not.

    My point is that I very rarely "schedule" rapid intervention training. Sure, every once in awhile I will when I want to clearly develop a self-rescue/rapid intervention skill or set of skills, and that will be scheduled as such, but in my experience I have found that the best self-rescue or RIT drills occur when I throw in that fireground emergency while they are performing another scheduled task, such as a "scheduled" hose advancement or search drill.

    The idea that they may run into a situation, have to call a mayday and then will have to perform rapid intervention operations in not in their heads. It forces them to start cold and respond as they likely will have to during an actual event when they are concentrating on fire operations, and not necessarily thinking about self-rescue/rapid intervention as their primary focus.

    The hose was just one of the things that I have used in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bones42
    replied
    No offense, LaFire, but for RIT/FAST training....your not the guy I'd be looking for to lead it. Hose or netting while on hose advancement is pretty standard training for all firefighters. Hose advancement is not even part of our RIT/FAST.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Not a big prop guy for rapis intervention and self rescue. I'm more of "I'll come up with something that they have never seen before" kind of a guy.

    Why? Because props are generally predictable. After they have run through them a couple of times, they know what to expect and know what to do. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, and they certainly do have their place in building some basic self-rescue and RIT skills, but given the energy required to develop and build them especially in small department I'm just not sure if it's worth the energy.

    I do use them as my VFD has a couple made up. They were stored in the open where the members could see them before they were used, but now they are locked up. Most of the members have never seen them and that's the way I like it. They'll be a surprise for most when we do go to use them.

    I'm more of a dropping a few hundred feet of 3" hose, cargo net or chain link fence on them while crawling around doing a search or hose advancement drill kind of guy. Random. Unexpected. Unannounced. And yes. kinda dirty. But it catches them off guard and I believe, truly tests their ability to react to the unexpected.

    Just my take on things.

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    My Denver prop is portable too. It breaks down into 4 pieces.

    Leave a comment:

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