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Average charged line time

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  • Average charged line time

    How fast can your dept get water in the 1st line on the run of the mill structure? Is this something you train on? The reason I ask is is I got irritated watching different videos on youtube at how long it takes to get a line in operation.

    We shoot for 1-2 min, One night at training all we did was deploy crosslays over and over.

    To bad the booster doesn't really count. Which brings up another question do you guys use the booster for exposures?
    Get the first line into operation.

  • #2
    I think we can get a line going in a couple of minutes after arrival. Sometimes the hang-up isn't the line, it's getting water through the pump. Not all pump operators are created equal.

    We don't drill like we should.

    The only booster line we have is on the brush truck, and it's usually the last thing out of the station on a structure call - more of a bus than anything else, to bring those who missed the first due.

    On the other hand, most folks would rather pick up the booster line than a "canvas" hose, so that's usually what gets pulled first there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
      ...We shoot for 1-2 min, One night at training all we did was deploy crosslays over and over...
      Pretty much same here. Currently, we tend to run off tank water while the supply line is still getting connected/charged. No booster lines here. 1 3/4" are our minimum handline size.
      "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

      Comment


      • #4
        Too many variables to put a time limit on this, IMO. It may take a top-notch group four minutes to get a charged line to the front door and two minutes for a so-so group due to circumstances out of their control. Where are the hydrants? Are there hydrants? How much tank water is available? What are the staffing levels? One extra person can make a world of difference.

        I say concentrate on being as good as you can be. Don't worry about the clock.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by captnjak View Post
          Too many variables to put a time limit on this, IMO. It may take a top-notch group four minutes to get a charged line to the front door and two minutes for a so-so group due to circumstances out of their control. Where are the hydrants? Are there hydrants? How much tank water is available? What are the staffing levels? One extra person can make a world of difference.

          I say concentrate on being as good as you can be. Don't worry about the clock.
          Best answer ever!
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
            Best answer ever!
            True that.

            In addition, when us armchair IC's/KIC's watch a video, we see one point of view, and even then part of our field of view is often blocked, usually by arriving apparatus. So what may look like an inexcusable delay may just be the reality of the situation.

            Comment


            • #7
              varies , sometimes with a 3 man crew the operator will wait and finish the hydrant hook up ---- but years ago , we ran a late 50s Seagrave engine , that had a vacuum actuated clutch, -- but if you had long arms , you could simultaneously jerk the hand brake, stomp the clutch (in 4th gear) reach out and shift the "road to pump" lever , -then just let the clutch out ,open the tank to pump, and charge the line ---we ran triple lays pulled out of the hose bed -could have water flowing EASILY in under 90 seconds -
              ?

              Comment


              • #8
                I guess to me this is a tough question to answer fairly amongst different departments. As captnjak said above there are too many variables, crew size, crew competency, including the MPO, pre-connects, deadlays, forward lay, reverse lay, line length, building layout, and water supply (hydrants, tender shuttle). Sometimes the delay isn't with the crew laying out the line, sometimes its with the failure to call for water in a timely manner, and sometimes the pump operator is the reason for the delay.

                To me I guess the answer is how fast can YOUR guys deploy and get water to the varying hose line setups your department has. Take my POC FD for example, we have 200 and 300 foot 2 inch pre-connects. We also have a 400 foot 3 inch apartment line with a gated wye and 100 feet of 2 inch attached to it with a second 100 foot 2 inch line available for the wye and the 400 foot 3 inch line with an Elkhart Ram attached to it.

                Maybe the standard should be to have your crews pull the lines and look at the average times and set your standard off from that.
                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                Millions of people living as foes
                Maybe it's not too late
                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
                  ---we ran triple lays pulled out of the hose bed -could have water flowing EASILY in under 90 seconds -
                  Slo-Pokes... []

                  (Firematics is a whole 'nother discussion)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tree_68 View Post
                    Slo-Pokes... []

                    (Firematics is a whole 'nother discussion)
                    hey ---us Southerners are laid back. --Heat and humidity
                    ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nothing will make our guys speed up faster and possibly miss something important, than putting a stopwatch in to play. Setting up for fire attack is a methodical task that is very dynamic, meaning it can change exponentially from minute to minute.
                      IAFF

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Plus there are times where it happens very quickly but FEELS like forever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          With no obstacles, a 200' crosslay, (I think the triple fold is the easiest to deploy) a nozzleman and backup, and using tank water, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to have a charged line at the front door of a building in 30-60 seconds with a competent crew. I'm NOT saying they'd be ready for entry, but that makes for a quick transitional attack. Unusual situations aside, it should never take a pump operator more than a minute and a half to two minutes to get a preconnected line charged.
                          Of course there are many variables, but there are a LOT of times videos show fire crews taking way too long to charge a line. If a crew is on air, pacing around, waiting for water, the pump operator is moving way too slow.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Many of us can't get where we need to be with 200 feet of hose. The flip side is we usually have more staffing. But narrow stairs and hallways in some older MD's can make the additional staffing all but useless. You can only fit so many firefighters in a small place. Plus they don't all arrive at the same time.

                            I agree that the crosslay stretch to the front door of a single family dwelling should take place very quickly.

                            IMO, no one should be masked up while waiting for water. You may need that air later. Masking up is the last thing we do prior to attack.

                            On the same note, I've seen videos where guys are masked up while carrying ladders toward the building. Why?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by captnjak View Post
                              Many of us can't get where we need to be with 200 feet of hose. The flip side is we usually have more staffing. But narrow stairs and hallways in some older MD's can make the additional staffing all but useless. You can only fit so many firefighters in a small place. Plus they don't all arrive at the same time.

                              I agree that the crosslay stretch to the front door of a single family dwelling should take place very quickly.

                              IMO, no one should be masked up while waiting for water. You may need that air later. Masking up is the last thing we do prior to attack.

                              On the same note, I've seen videos where guys are masked up while carrying ladders toward the building. Why?
                              You are spot on again. A simple, virtually straight, 200 foot preconnect pull should be easily and quickly accomplished. Unfortunately, rarely are they simple, or straight, and as you stated 200 feet doesn't always reach. Heck we have a single story building where 200 feet barely gets you in the front door. This is where the apartment pack or the RAM on the deadlay 3 inch come into play.

                              I have argued the face piece on face piece off until you enter so many times that I am weary of the topic. It is foolish and potentially dangerous to do things like throw ladders, advance hose outside, and a myriad of other exterior tasks with your facepiece on. A simple fact is the mask will fog very quickly in cooler temperatures virtually making you blind as you move around. The other side is I want my firefighters doing their own size up as they move towards the building. Harder to do through a fogged up mask.
                              Crazy, but that's how it goes
                              Millions of people living as foes
                              Maybe it's not too late
                              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                              Comment

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