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Hard from the yard

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  • #61
    Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post

    As for being obtuse? Keep it up, any change worth it's merit should withstand constant scrutiny. If we didn't argue against change we'd never have stability in anything. I for one think it necessary to have relevant opposition in the form of experienced persons questioning things.
    I would agree if I felt that MemphisE34a had done some research, watched a video, or attended a class on Transitional Attack or Flow Path. But all I keep hearing is tired old arguments without an understanding of even what the proper techniques are.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by MemphisE34a View Post
      Calling someone obtuse got Andy Dufrense put in the hole. Just sayin.
      And after being in the hole, he went out of another, got a $hit ton of money, and retired to a beach on the Pacific Ocean. Just sayin'...

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
        I would agree if I felt that MemphisE34a had done some research, watched a video, or attended a class on Transitional Attack or Flow Path. But all I keep hearing is tired old arguments without an understanding of even what the proper techniques are.
        I've done all that. Just know what my personal experiences have been.
        RK
        cell #901-494-9437

        Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

        "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


        Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by MemphisE34a View Post
          I've done all that. Just know what my personal experiences have been.
          Then I will state emphatically that I believe that the techniques being used for the "New" transitional attack are being done wrong in your area or department.

          All it takes for that steam push to occur is the stream to be in the wrong form, fog instead of straight stream or smooth bore, or for the nozzle to be moved in the opening as water is applied. It is critical that the stream be near vertical and not be moved in the opening. If it is a fog pattern it blocks the vent opening. If it is a straight stream or a solid bore and the nozzle is moved the stream blocks the vent opening.
          Last edited by FyredUp; 02-16-2016, 06:26 PM.
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

          Comment


          • #65
            Gotta weigh in --My biggest concern , is for every one of you guys that study and realize that it is just "one tool in the tool box" there is a substantial number which will make their version of "hard from the yard" their "default"
            ?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
              Gotta weigh in --My biggest concern , is for every one of you guys that study and realize that it is just "one tool in the tool box" there is a substantial number which will make their version of "hard from the yard" their "default"
              I don't disagree with what you are saying. the truth is though more than likely they were already hitting it "Hard from the yard" and they are using this as a justification for their non-entry lack of tactics. The other side is though those that dismiss it out of hand without ever having studied, researched, attended a class, or watched a video, and those that also dismiss it out of hand simply because it doesn't fit their idea of what a firefighter does. The fire service has some of the most stubborn closed minded people I have ever seen. They refuse to have their little world challenged by new ideas.

              Let me say this, we had a long and hard battle over VES or VEIS, and how to clear the window. I stood hard and fast with the side for taking the window with the ladder and then climbing up to make entry. After further research into flow paths I now believe this is 100% WRONG. We should place the ladder, climb up, take a look at conditions and then decide whether to enter or not based on our size-up of the room. Breaking the window from the ground creates a flow path that may change conditions rapidly and never even allow us to enter the room.
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                I don't disagree with what you are saying. the truth is though more than likely they were already hitting it "Hard from the yard" and they are using this as a justification for their non-entry lack of tactics. The other side is though those that dismiss it out of hand without ever having studied, researched, attended a class, or watched a video, and those that also dismiss it out of hand simply because it doesn't fit their idea of what a firefighter does. The fire service has some of the most stubborn closed minded people I have ever seen. They refuse to have their little world challenged by new ideas.

                Let me say this, we had a long and hard battle over VES or VEIS, and how to clear the window. I stood hard and fast with the side for taking the window with the ladder and then climbing up to make entry. After further research into flow paths I now believe this is 100% WRONG. We should place the ladder, climb up, take a look at conditions and then decide whether to enter or not based on our size-up of the room. Breaking the window from the ground creates a flow path that may change conditions rapidly and never even allow us to enter the room.
                And that's a perfect example of taking the new information and applying it to an existing tactic.

                As far as hard-From-the-Yard as a default tactic,..... In many places it's the only viable tactic as the manpower simply does not exist for anything else. I'll use one department that as teach at for LSU as an example. They have 17 members and only 3 are under the age of 60 .... 2 can wear SCBA. And the incoming mutual aid departments are in the same boat. That is the community that they live in. The majority of the younger residents have moved out. And there are several other examples in the areas that I teach in. For them hard from the yard is the only way they can operate, right or wrong, it's the hand that they have been dealt.

                Certainly the intent of this tactic is to followup with an interior operation, but in some circumstances, that's not going to be the case.
                Train to fight the fires you fight.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  And that's a perfect example of taking the new information and applying it to an existing tactic.

                  As far as hard-From-the-Yard as a default tactic,..... In many places it's the only viable tactic as the manpower simply does not exist for anything else. I'll use one department that as teach at for LSU as an example. They have 17 members and only 3 are under the age of 60 .... 2 can wear SCBA. And the incoming mutual aid departments are in the same boat. That is the community that they live in. The majority of the younger residents have moved out. And there are several other examples in the areas that I teach in. For them hard from the yard is the only way they can operate, right or wrong, it's the hand that they have been dealt.

                  Certainly the intent of this tactic is to followup with an interior operation, but in some circumstances, that's not going to be the case.
                  I don't disagree with those circumstances, where my issue comes is comparing that "Hard from the yard," with the new Transitional Attack style of hard from the yard. Tactically and philosophically they are as different as night and day.
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                    I don't disagree with those circumstances, where my issue comes is comparing that "Hard from the yard," with the new Transitional Attack style of hard from the yard. Tactically and philosophically they are as different as night and day.
                    agreed --------
                    ?

                    Comment

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