Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse

Firehouse.com Forum Rules & Guidelines

Forum Rules & Guidelines

Not Permitted or Tolerated:
• Advertising and/or links of commercial, for-profit websites, products, and/or services is not permitted. If you have a need to advertise on Firehouse.com please contact sales@firehouse.com
• Fighting/arguing
• Cyber-bullying
• Swearing
• Name-calling and/or personal attacks
• Spamming
• Typing in all CAPS
• “l33t speak” - Substituting characters for letters in an effort to represent a word or phrase. (example: M*****ive)
• Distribution of another person’s personal information, regardless of whether or not said information is public knowledge and whether or not an individual has permission to post said personal information
• Piracy advocation of any kind
• Racist, sexual, hate type defamatory, religious, political, or sexual commentary.
• Multiple forum accounts

Forum Posting Guidelines:

Posts must be on-topic, non-disruptive and relevant to the firefighting community. Post only in a mature and responsible way that contributes to the discussion at hand. Posting relevant information, helpful suggestions and/or constructive criticism is a great way to contribute to the community.

Post in the correct forum and have clear titles for your threads.

Please post in English or provide a translation.

There are moderators and admins who handle these forums with care, do not resort to self-help, instead please utilize the reporting option. Be mature and responsible for yourself and your posts. If you are offended by another member utilize the reporting option. All reported posts will be addressed and dealt with as deemed appropriate by Firehouse.com staff.

Firehouse.com Moderation Process:
Effective immediately, the following moderation process will take effect. User(s) whose posts are determined by Firehouse.com staff to be in violation of any of the rules above will EARN the following reprimand(s) in the moderation process:
1. An initial warning will be issued.
2. A Final Warning will be issued if a user is found to be in violation a second time.
3. A 3-day suspension will be issued if the user continues to break the forum rules.
4. A 45-day suspension will be issued if the user is found to be a habitual rule breaker.
5. Habitual rule breakers that have exhausted all of the above will receive a permanent life-time ban that will be strictly enforced. Reinstatement will not be allowed – there is no appeal process.

Subsequent accounts created in an effort to side-step the rules and moderation process are subject to automatic removal without notice. Firehouse.com reserves the right to expedite the reprimand process for any users as it is deemed necessary. Any user in the moderation process may be required to review and agree to by email the terms and conditions listed above before their account is re-instated (except for those that are banned).

Firehouse.com reserves the right to edit and/or remove any post or member, at any time, for any reason without notice. Firehouse.com also reserves the right to warn, suspend, and/or ban, any member, at any time, for any reason.

Firehouse.com values the active participation we have in our forums. Please ensure your posts are tasteful and tactful. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
See more
See less

Portable Fire Pump Questions and Information Requested

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Portable Fire Pump Questions and Information Requested

    Hello,
    I am looking at getting a portable pump for perimeter protection from grass fires. We have a 400 unit complex but we are up against quite a few LARGE grass fields that are not properly maintained. I am also in California, the wild fire king of states. As a former VOL. fire fighter out of Oregon I have worked with portable pumps. I do not want to spend 2,000$+ on a pump. I am looking at a high volume semi trash pump because it has 15,000 gph flow rate. I have been thinking of putting on some y valves on the discharge for hose hook ups. I figure I will have increased pressure with reduced size while still flowing some good volume of water. I am not sure if I should go with HIGH pressure pump or a High Volume pump. CET makes great pumps but they are pricey. Honda makes good cheap pumps and Northstar sells some good pumps.

    Here are some pump selections I have let me know what you think.
    3" Semi Trash 15800 GPH http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5732_200395732
    4" Semi Trash pump 23,000 GPH http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...8135_200418135

    They are about 40psi max. I do not know is that means 40 psi max on free flow, or the pump can only handle 40 psi max.

    Again our feedback is valued.
    Thank You

  • #2
    what is your water supply ? swimming pool ? if so go with a couple of Honda pressure pumps -having several will build redundancy ,rig them up with a cheap foam (dawn) inductor. Having said that , make some phone calls and get the hazard mitigated. A lot better/cheaper/safer
    ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Trash pumps may move thousands of gallons per hour - but that's at near open-butt pressures. What kind of flow can you get with a nozzle on the hose?

      Trash pumps have a very different impeller than fire pumps. And it's definitely not built for pressure.

      Take a look at what you are going to pump in to, hose-wise. A trash pump isn't going give you much water through a garden hose.

      I'd vote for a pressure pump as well.

      If you're going to try to cover a lot of ground on the perimeter, and have available water (pools), maybe some "Robin" pumps would do the job.

      Whatever you do, be sure to set up a decent maintenance/test program for them. And keep decent fuel in them and available. Wouldn't do to have all the hardware and not have any of it work...
      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tree68 View Post
        Trash pumps may move thousands of gallons per hour - but that's at near open-butt pressures. What kind of flow can you get with a nozzle on the hose?

        Trash pumps have a very different impeller than fire pumps. And it's definitely not built for pressure.

        Take a look at what you are going to pump in to, hose-wise. A trash pump isn't going give you much water through a garden hose.

        I'd vote for a pressure pump as well.

        If you're going to try to cover a lot of ground on the perimeter, and have available water (pools), maybe some "Robin" pumps would do the job.

        Whatever you do, be sure to set up a decent maintenance/test program for them. And keep decent fuel in them and available. Wouldn't do to have all the hardware and not have any of it work...
        no ethanol for sure
        ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Is it just grass around your perimeter, or is it a mixture of grass, brush, and trees? And how tall? That would make a big difference in what I would suggest. Also, what is your perimeter like? Do you have a fence?

          Don't use a trash pump. The 40 PSI is the max pressure. It won't put out nearly as much volume at 40 PSI. I used to get them for free. The drilling company would just leave them at the trash pit. I'd fish them out and load them in the pickup before covering the pit. They will move a lot of mud and water, but they won't run a nozzle very well. They work great for use filling trucks from portable tanks, though.

          I like something that has some pressure on it. The more pressure it has, the further away I can stand from the heat and smoke.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
            no ethanol for sure
            Amen. We buy the unleaded gas/oil in quart cans for our two cycle equipment. May be more expensive, but it's in a sealed (more or less) container...

            A lot of gas stations now have unleaded premium, fortunately.
            Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

            Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am thinking of this pump.
              NorthStar High-Pressure Water Pump — 3in. Ports, 10,550 GPH, 116 PSI, 270cc Honda GX270 Engine
              http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...8132_200418132 Runs about 175-180 GPM on full with over 100 psi. Not bad for 850$ accounting for CET pumps start at $1500+

              I am thinking of putting some 1" irrigation sprinklers spaced about 50-75 ft apart on poles on the fence that separates my 400 unit complex (Im not owner just a concerned tennet) and if SHTF aka Fire, the field can be wet down with 2-3 pumps at most. We have 5 pools total over the complex. My pool near the field that is the threat is the lowest in elevation, other pools are 50-100ft up and 500 ft out. Using pumps to shuttle water from the top 4 pools to the lower 1 pool would be easy. I could use the 4" trash pump for that, it is down hill so no need for high pressure. I do have access to the fire hydrant if resources were not available, major disaster, fire storm ETC. I have permission to use to for personal protection in a state of emergency. We have about 10 5"/2.5" hydrants. As being a former FF the chief is cool with me using them as he knows it wont be but for emergencies. The field being mowed is NOT an option, the state owns it as the state hospital is near by (CHOMO ALER), and they do not mow the fields so we get 6-18ft high dense weeds and our local gov cant do ***** about it sadly. I do however jump the fense every 4-6 months after a good rain and my neighbor and i weed eat the brush back about 25 ft.

              Back to the pumps. I get what you are saying about the low pressure and different impeller of a trash pump. Ill get one for shuttling water between the pools but as for FF defensively ill get 2-3 Honda high pressure 3" pumps. I figure run a 2.5" discharge hose off them to the fence and get a few Y gates and hook about 4-6 1" hoses to each pump to feed the sprinklers. Again it should only take 12 sprinklers to cover the full fence line and get enough water out fast. Good part is, if we did have a major earthquake and or fire storm and a appt unit (8 appts per unit) goes up in flames and there is no help coming, we could use water from the pools if water lines are broke and go defensively and protect the other units.. Better to loose 8 than 400.
              Ill check in on this thread again if anyone has any more advice or ideas.

              Here is the property I am talking about
              https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.4.../data=!3m1!1e3

              The picture is OLD view but still gets point across, and they do not mow it much any more if at all.
              Here are photos of the fields, only a small section as you will see. The grass is higher than it looks, well over my head and the fields were recently mowed as I said but it is rare, maybe every few years is all..

              Dont mind my friendly deer... LOL
              http://i.imgur.com/RpRmSWM.jpg
              http://i.imgur.com/xCRoAmz.jpg

              This is a small section between the fences I recently managed, and the grass was well over the fence
              http://i.imgur.com/F1B9MnV.jpg
              http://i.imgur.com/VxkzSmg.jpg

              Comment


              • #8
                You also want to make sure, you are squared away, as far as hose threads.

                You may encounter quick connect ends, National Pipe Threads (NPT) and the like. You want to make sure you can connect the drafting hose to the pump and the pump to a discharge hose for the handlines and/or sprinklers.

                Spend the money needed, on adapters, if need be. You do not want to find out you cannot connect things together, during a fire.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You know this seems like a lot of time and money to try accomplish something that a bush hog and a chainsaw could do better.
                  ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
                    You know this seems like a lot of time and money to try accomplish something that a bush hog and a chainsaw could do better.
                    Alas, the neighbors may not appreciate his mowing their "yard" for them.
                    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If the fire danger is as bad as implied , I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a way to have the neighbors mow their own "yard" -- it might take some effort , but it sounds like they are in a built up area. And best I can tell , it is state owned land.
                      Last edited by slackjawedyokel; 10-13-2015, 07:30 PM.
                      ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A couple of things.....

                        The lower pressure trash pumps will not tolerate much in the way of restricting the outflow of water. Restrict it too much and too much pressure builds in the pump housing which will overcome the seal between the engine and pump. Don't ask how I know this....

                        Depending on what irrigation heads you are looking at, 50' may not be close enough. I've put just a few feet of irrigation pipe in the ground at my day job, and at *best* we can space heads at 35' and still get head-to-head coverage. Normally though we are looking at 28-30'. You can get longer ranges with more industrial heads, but bigger heads plus bigger flow will equal more difficult to anchor in place above grade.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fire5555
                          Just a question

                          Are you retired or do you have a full time job?
                          Full time student and a former VOL fire fighter who is getting back into it after a few surgeries and getting my paramedic too.

                          Originally posted by FIRE117 View Post
                          You also want to make sure, you are squared away, as far as hose threads.

                          You may encounter quick connect ends, National Pipe Threads (NPT) and the like. You want to make sure you can connect the drafting hose to the pump and the pump to a discharge hose for the handlines and/or sprinklers.

                          Spend the money needed, on adapters, if need be. You do not want to find out you cannot connect things together, during a fire.
                          With out a doubt ill be getting good hoses, adapters and quick connects for easy operation



                          Originally posted by dfelix22000us View Post
                          A couple of things.....

                          The lower pressure trash pumps will not tolerate much in the way of restricting the outflow of water. Restrict it too much and too much pressure builds in the pump housing which will overcome the seal between the engine and pump. Don't ask how I know this....

                          Depending on what irrigation heads you are looking at, 50' may not be close enough. I've put just a few feet of irrigation pipe in the ground at my day job, and at *best* we can space heads at 35' and still get head-to-head coverage. Normally though we are looking at 28-30'. You can get longer ranges with more industrial heads, but bigger heads plus bigger flow will equal more difficult to anchor in place above grade.
                          Good to know, I will be using the trash pump for a pool to pool transfer, form up hill to down, should not put too much pressure on the pump.
                          As for the sprinkler, I have deceived to go to 1" sprinklers at 22" apart. I figure a 3" 125 PSI 180-200GPM pump can supply 6 1" lines safely 8 if I needed.

                          Thank you all for he help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fire5555
                            """"
                            Originally Posted by fire5555

                            Just a question

                            Are you retired or do you have a full time job?
                            Full time student and a former VOL fire fighter who is getting back into it after a few surgeries and getting my paramedic too.""""


                            Just was wondering who was going to be around to run all this equipment
                            kind of wondered the same thing myself , but mitigation measures don't have the adrenaline rush that "standing tall" against the red devil does.
                            ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They don't have the rush, but they are generally much more effective. If a true firestorm hits, mitigation will be what determines if the property is saved or lost. A pump or a couple of pumps can be a big asset IF mitigation measures are in place. If there are not mitigation measures in place, a portable pump is useless.

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Leader

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X