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Is it integrity or throwing under the bus?

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  • Is it integrity or throwing under the bus?

    Ok so I am in a hard position and I am not necessarily afraid to talk to my Co workers or follow the chain of command but I need advice. We have a private ambo that transports our pts. The ambo company has a bc on duty that goes to major calls. 962 extrications or codes ect. There was a code and we didn't get dispatched because we were far. Anyway. The ambo companies bc flew by us code three and did not fully stopped at the Red and slow rolled thru it. Do I say something being it's integrity.... always doing the right thing...... (a little sarcasm) or does it appear I'm throwing the bc under the bus? Thank you in advance
    Last edited by fireazm1; 09-18-2015, 07:53 PM.

  • #2
    Don't start a ****ing contest with EMS over an incident that didn't hurt anyone. Now, if they had blown through the light without slowing down, that's one thing. But a slow roll? When someone's life is on the line? C'mon, man.

    Comment


    • #3
      My advice is to worry more about your performance and less (MUCH less) about everyone else's performance. If you come to find that this individual displays a pattern of seriously dangerous acts then you might be compelled to talk to a more senior member or supervisor. But for now shut your mouth.
      Slow rolling through a red light when it is safe to do so is not a problem, IMO. It happens thousands of times each day in this country.

      Comment


      • #4
        Depends on what your definition of a "slow" roll is.
        The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
        There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
        Captain Dave LeBlanc

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        • #5
          Originally posted by conrad427 View Post
          Depends on what your definition of a "slow" roll is.
          Good point. "Slow" can be subjective.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey - at least he didn't bust through the intersection at speed, which would have been the case not so many years ago.

            Policies notwithstanding, the idea is to ensure you have control of the intersection. If it's a busy intersection with poor sight lines during rush hour, that slow roll could be a problem.

            If it's a relatively quiet intersection at an off hour, with clear sight lines in all directions (and no traffic in sight), the slow roll probably isn't a problem.

            Polar opposite situations, to be sure. All others are a judgment call. I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

            Given the reported code, though, I'd tend to give him a pass, although the fact that he passed the OP's unit, which was "too far away" kinda makes me wonder...
            Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

            Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thx guys for the advice
              So my question trees and no disrespect intended w this. With you saying slow rolling depending is ok. Isn't that an integrity thing also? Knowing you should follow your sops ect. Not I don't want to sound like a goody too shoes b tch but when does not being careful even at 3am w a clear intersection become complacent and I know not everything is done by the book. She slow rolled. All cars were stopped all 4 ways probally 10 cars per corner

              Comment


              • #8
                fireazm1...

                What's the real story here? Do you have a beef with this EMS BC and it has you looking for a way to stick it to him/her?
                Last edited by FyredUp; 09-18-2015, 12:30 AM.
                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                Millions of people living as foes
                Maybe it's not too late
                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fireazm1 View Post
                  Thx guys for the advice
                  So my question trees and no disrespect intended w this. With you saying slow rolling depending is ok. Isn't that an integrity thing also? Knowing you should follow your sops ect. Not I don't want to sound like a goody too shoes b tch but when does not being careful even at 3am w a clear intersection become complacent and I know not everything is done by the book. She slow rolled. All cars were stopped all 4 ways probally 10 cars per corner
                  Again, it comes down to two things - one, what's the SOP? If the agency SOP calls for a stop, then clearly she was in violation of that SOP, although that's still an SOP, not the law. AFAIK, there is no law anywhere that calls for a full stop.

                  Second, "slow roll" is a subjective term - one person's creep is another's "totally paused." I've nosed into more than one intersection (even when I had a green light), prepared to stop, but without stopping.

                  What it comes down to is this: Did he/she exercise "due regard?" If he/she had command of the intersection (and a "slow roll" would allow that), then she was exercising due regard. And that satisfies me, and the law.
                  Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                  Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thank you tree
                    and fyrd up not at all
                    i have no beef with anyone actually and here in arizona the code 3 driving law states unless someone finds different
                    a complete stop shall be made at all red light intersections and stop signs

                    i guess where im getting at is

                    for those who think its not a big deal then ok cool
                    but hypothetically and god forbid
                    what if she slow rolled and was in a wreck
                    would the people saying well she should of stopped ect being hypocrit or would u still say well she slow rolled so its ok

                    fyrdup you have alot more experience than i do so let me ask u this
                    what if i was on your interview panel and i asked you

                    whats your deffinition of integrity

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fireazm1 View Post
                      Thx guys for the advice
                      So my question trees and no disrespect intended w this. With you saying slow rolling depending is ok. Isn't that an integrity thing also? Knowing you should follow your sops ect. Not I don't want to sound like a goody too shoes b tch but when does not being careful even at 3am w a clear intersection become complacent and I know not everything is done by the book. She slow rolled. All cars were stopped all 4 ways probally 10 cars per corner
                      All cars were stopped all 4 ways 10 cars per corner? What is your beef then? Clearly this BC operated in a safe manner. Stop worrying so much about integrity. Integrity is useless without judgment. We live and work in the real world. I don't know how long you've done this but if you seek perfection you will cripple yourself. But if you do seek perfection, start with yourself. Are you perfect in every way?
                      Considering the specific circumstances (as provided by you) I would say you are NOT displaying integrity here and yes you are throwing this individual under the bus.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fireazm1 View Post
                        fyrdup you have alot more experience than i do so let me ask u this
                        what if i was on your interview panel and i asked you

                        whats your deffinition of integrity
                        Integrity...a simple clichéd answer is doing the right thing even when no one is watching. But sometimes doing the right thing for the circumstances may not meet society's or your definition of the right thing.

                        The example of this person slow rolling through an intersection is an example of that. They were en route to an ems call that you define as a code. Was anyone hurt by their actions? Did it allow them to perhaps get their a little faster? You see the real world isn't always measured in exacts and tight azz rules written in an office.
                        Crazy, but that's how it goes
                        Millions of people living as foes
                        Maybe it's not too late
                        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He is a supervisor in a completely different organization. Bottom line, its none of your business.
                          RK
                          cell #901-494-9437

                          Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

                          "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


                          Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EastKyFF
                            The best definition I can muster for "throwing someone under the bus" is allowing the full blame for a problem to be placed with other people when you had as much or more responsibility as they did.

                            So you are not throwing this person under the bus. You're apparently being a petty, jealous wacker because you didn't get toned on the call.
                            My first thought when I read this was BOO YAH! Followed by OUCH!!
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am not mad I didn't get toned out at all lol. I have run plenty of codes which isn't a big deal. And I do agree w some statements on integrity. Now pick my battles yes I agree. See my thing is did anyone get hurt. No. Could they have. Yes. Could some moron driver not see her and go with their green and she didn't fully stop... yes.

                              Memphis so being they work for another organization means it's ok and they can do whatever they want? Do we do things by the book always.... no
                              Am I perfect
                              ..hell no I'm not

                              Comment

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