NFPA recommendations for the # of SCBA on Apparatus

[airrj]

I was wondering if anyone could help me with the number of SCBA that sould be on Appartatus as per the NFPA Standards. Also can you tell me what standard this would be found in? I am interested in Engine's, Brush trucks, Rescues, and Tankers that would serve as a reserve engine. thanks.

[FD111]

I am not sure of the NFPA standard, but if I am not mistaken, the standard states that there has to be an air pack for every person on the truck. Meaning that if you have space for 10 riders there has to be 10 air packs on the truck. Hope this helps alittle.

[FFSThomas]

NFPA 1901 - "Motorized Fire Apparatus"
NFPA 1500 - "Occupational Health & Safety"

I know for fact that each member involved in or are in a hazardous atmoshere must wear an SCBA (per NFPA 1500)

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[CVFD26]

I am not for sure how many the NFPA requires on each engine. I know that I seen on the ISO web-site, that they require 4 SCBAs on an engine. Does anybody know if ISO gets their standards from NFPA standards

[SmokeEater31]

Good question.
one I had not thought of.

Anyone that can answer tha particular question of Brush Trucks and Tankers. Our Engines (1st Due and 2nd Due) have a total of 10 packs. (With equal spares). Are we out of standard regarding the Tankers and Brush Truck, and for that matter our light duty Rescue?

I guess the reasoning we have had in the passt is that the first due and second due have a total of 4 SCBAs for arriving, non-committed personnel. (ie Tanker drivers would be involved in shuttle operations the mahority of the time)

Thanks for getting me to think AIRRJ!!!! MUCH APPRECIATED!

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Your Brother In The Service,
Rob Herpel
FF/EMT
Vice-Pres./Asst. EMS Coordinator
Fremont Rural Fire Department

[airrj]

The reason I ask is because my department is in the process of replacing all of our SCBA. I know what we have and what my opinion is on what we should have, but I would like to know what applicable standards say we should have. I have the ISO standard but I was hoping to find out the NFPA standard without buying it today.

FFSThomas I thought that it would be in 1901 which I don't have but I do have 1500 and I don't recall the standard addressing specfic apparatus types.

If anyone has 1901 could they check for me?

SmokeEater31 We run one Engine, one Tanker (this would be our reserve Engine if the front line Engine was OOS), a Brush unit, and a Rescue. Currently our Engine carries 4 SBCA with room for 5 FF, the Tanker has 2 SCBA swith room for 2 FF, the Brush carries 2 SCBA with room for 3 FF, and the Rescue has 2 SCBA with room for 8 FF.

Thanks folks.

[mongofire_99]

NFPA 1901 1996 Edition

Pumper Fire Apparatus Requirements

One self contained breathing apparatus complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self Contained Breathing Apparatus for Fire Fighters, for each assigned seating position, but not less than four;

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried

Initial Attack Fire Apparatus

One self contained breathing apparatus complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self Contained Breathing Apparatus for Fire Fighters, for each assigned seating position, but not less than two;

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried

Mobile Water Supply Fire Apparatus

One self contained breathing apparatus complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self Contained Breathing Apparatus for Fire Fighters, for each assigned seating position, but not less than two;

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried

Aerial Fire Apparatus

One self contained breathing apparatus complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self Contained Breathing Apparatus for Fire Fighters, for each assigned seating position, but not less than four;

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried

Special Fire Service Apparatus

One self contained breathing apparatus complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self Contained Breathing Apparatus for Fire Fighters, for each assigned seating position, but not less than two;

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried

Any reserve apparatus should have the full complement of equipment as the front line piece they will reserve for.


[This message has been edited by mongofire_99 (edited 04-06-2001).]

[SmokeEater31]

Mongofire,

In the "Special Apparatus" mention would that include our Tankers?

Like I mentioned, the ONLY apparatus that carries SCBA are our two pumpers. So, we look as if we are in comliance in that way.

I think the reasoning behind the light duty Rescue not having SCBA is two fold.
1). Our second due structure pumper is the second piece dispatched for every 10-45 ( Personal Injury Collision) as well, so that would provide those extra 2 SCBAs needed for the Rescue crew.

2). We have speced out a new pumper for delivery in late 2001 early 2002. This will replace the light duty pumper as it's day is over, and it costing more than it is worth, as well as second due structure piece.

The grass truck has NONE, and I think the resoning behin that is the engine mentioned abopve is also dispacthed on the natural cover fires.

He tankers don't because of the extra 2 SCBAs on each pumper.

Are we out of compiance? I read what you quoted, but I need a clarification on "Special Apparatus" if possible.

Thanks again.

------------------
Your Brother In The Service,
Rob Herpel
FF/EMT
Vice-Pres./Asst. EMS Coordinator
Fremont Rural Fire Department

[FiRsqDvr45]

Tankers are under the Mobile Water Supply Apparatus. Special as I read it is squads, rescues, service trucks,equipment units etc. and Initial Attack units are mini and midi pumpers. Between our 2 engines, 1 ladder, and the fire alarm/utility unit we carry 18 SCBA and about 14 spare bottles missing the criteria for spare bottles although if the FA/Utility driver has time he can add the skid boxes of about 10 more spare bottles.

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FF/EMT Jay Ellingson
Newington,NH FD
&
New England Dragway Safety Team (Sundaaayy!)
*N.E.D. celebrates 35 years a post-NHRA and current IHRA drag racing venue! Come on by and watch the great action at RT27 Epping, NH(Exit 8 off of Rt 101)*
New England Dragway is the home of the IHRA North American Nationals Sept 7-9 2001

[This message has been edited by FiRsqDvr45 (edited 04-06-2001).]

[airrj]

mongofire_99: Thanks! That was exactly what I was looking for.

I believe that with this info I am going to suggest that we continue with the 4 SCBA on the Engine w/4 spares, and 2 SBCA on the tanker w/2 spares. But, I am going to suggest that we carry 6 SCBA on the Rescue with spares. And to remove the SCBA from the Brush truck. Currently the SCBA are carried outside on the Brush truck in "moisture resistant" covers. The only responses that the Brush truck respondes on it is backed up by the Rescue or the Engine. I think we could better use the space on the Brush truck, and it's days of being an inital attack unit are long over. The tanker would respond as the Engine if the main Engine were out of service.

This would closely (not exactly) match both the ISO and NFPA standards. And it would give use 12 SCBA and currently we have 11 interiors anyway.

FiRsqDvr45: New England Dragway, I haven't been there in five years or so since I stopped working for Jim Oddy. Nice Place!

Thanks for the help everyone.

[mongofire_99]

Here's an update from the 1999 edition. I apologize for any confusion by posting the '96 edition.

Pumpers

One self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, for each assigned seating position, but not less than four, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space

Initial Attack

One SCBA complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, for each assigned seating position, but not less than two, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space(s)

Tankers

One SCBA complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, but not less than two, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space(s)

Aerials

One SCBA complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, for each assigned seating position, but not less than four, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space(s)

Quints

One SCBA complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, for each assigned seating position, but not less than four, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space(s)

Special

One SCBA complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, for each assigned seating position, but not less than two, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space(s)

Foam Apparatus

One SCBA complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for the Fire Service, for each assigned seating position, but not less than four, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer

One spare SCBA cylinder for each SCBA carried, each mounted in a bracket fastened to the apparatus or stored in a specially designed storage space

SmokeEater31

In the "Special Apparatus" mention would that include our Tankers?

As FiRsqDvr45 said, tankers are covered under Mobile Water Supply Apparatus

...I need a clarification on "Special Apparatus" if possible

For specific clarification you've got to go somewhere other than me:

NFPA Main Switchboard: (617) 770-3000, Fax: (617) 770-0700

However, I understand Special Fire Service Apparatus to mean any fire apparatus not specifically called out in 1901 - rescues, hazmats, commands, squads.... or covered in another standard.

[This message has been edited by mongofire_99 (edited 04-06-2001).]