Story on lack of benefits for inmate family

[Davidjb]

Did anyone else take offense after reading this or is it just me? I can sympathize with the family but let's be serious.

``Natasha lost her father. It's something the judicial system needs to look at for future inmates, because they put no value on these guys' lives,'' Reynolds said.

No value on these guys lives!? Did this guy value the lives of the offices he shot at? I don't think so, what about the offices families? Did this convict consider them while attempting to kill his pursuers?
It just amazes me that despite the fact that this guy attempted to murder Police Officers, there are people that think this guy should have all the rights and benefits of a law abiding citizen.

[cfr3504]

amen

[res7cue]

ROGER THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[eng16ine]

Thats the bed weeting bleeding heart liberals for you.......NUKE THE GAY LIBERAL WHALES FOR JESUS


These opinions i pray to GOD are those of my brothers at the department I am affiliated with.

[N2DFire]

O.K. - let me play a little Devils Advocate here.

Davidjb stated " . . .that despite the fact that this guy attempted to murder Police Officers, there are people that think this guy should have all the rights and benefits of a law abiding citizen."

What if Michael Bishop was in jail/prison for assult after defending himself in a bar fight? What if he wrote bad checks? What if he shoplifted a side of beef to feed his family - would any of you feel differenly then? Should you feel diferently?

Someone who is more familair with these inmate crews than I am can correct me if I'm wrong here - but no one forced Mr Bishop to take the "hot shot" training, no one made him join that fire crew, and no one made him put his life on the line to protect other peoples lives and property.

He very well could have stayed in his nice cell - in his warm bed, with a nice roof over his head, eating 3 hot meals a day, watching cable TV, and passing the time - All done on someone elses tax money.

Yes Mr Bishop broke the law.
Yes Mr Bishop was in Jail.
But Mr Bishop didn't have to be a firefighter, and Mr Bishop didn't have to die protecting someone elses life & property.

Not voicing my opinion (yet) - just wanted to put the "other side of the coin" out there for you all to think about.

As always my brothers & sisters . . .
Take Care - Stay Safe
Stephen
FF/Paramedic

[LtStick]

I think that his family should get something. He was Fighting a Fire regardless of the fact that he was a inmate. I feel that he was reapaying his Debt to society by being out on the lines fighting fires. His family deserves something. He was out there serving and protecting the same as anyone else.

[Eng522ine]

Let me begin by saying that I'm almost as liberal as Ronald Reagan was in the 80's (in other words I'm NOT nearly a liberal). In general, I do NOT believe that prisoners can be rehabilitated by prison or by any other means, once a criminal always a criminal. BUT these prison fire crews get my respect. They are the exception not the rule when it comes to prisoners. I whole heartedly believe these inmates should get every damn penny that they're due. They're out there getting the same training, doing the same job, and taking the same risks. They aren't doing this because they have to or because anyone told them to but just like any volunteer firefighter, they're out there because they choose to be. So why should they not get all of the benefits afforded to others that are out there because they choose to be? I'm not saying we should pay them hourly or otherwise but they made the ultimate sacrifice preserving other people's property. Show them some form of gratitude for giving their lives to help and protect others. No matter what they did to get into prison. In another way of thinking, it's cheaper to pay the death benefit than it is to keep them in jail.

[mark440]

I would like to know how many of you that are bitching have ever worked with this crew? I have. I have many, many, many times. I worked with that very crew many times just last summer. Sure, they were in prison. But after we were all out on the line you couldn't tell anyone apart from the other groups that were there. I respect this organization. I respect the people that were out there saving my life last summer. I am saddened to hear that the State of Utah is doing away with the Flame-In-Go program this year (The Flame-In-Goes are the inmates). They had a lot of training, alot of experiance, and some very, very nice equipment. There were many nights I slept just feet away from these people you think are the devil. Not once was I afraid of them. Not once did I ever see a firefighter from that crew do anything that would embarass themselves or the crew. They were the best behaved, most well mannered crew around. They policed themselves. If one of them screwed up, they all went back to the prison. There were many nights that I held highly inteligent conversations with them. Most of the inmates were serving time for white collar crimes. But, this article failed to mention that both inmates killed were up for parole within the next few years. They are human beings too. I am sure none of you are perfect....I know I am not! Have some compassion. These were two men that planned on following thier prison terms with fire jobs. They learned alot from others and others learned alot from them.
"Let ye without sin cast the first stone"
It could be your brother or sister in there. They are someones family too. I will miss the program this year, and so will alot of others. It is a tradgedy that it will not be on line this season. There are alot of guys with tons of experiance on those crews.


Stay safe,

Mark

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If in doubt - Call us out

[mark440]

Enough said. I do not mean to **** anyone off. I am just telling you how it really is here. They were working on paying back the debt to society they owed. They were giving more then was asked or required of them.

*These opinions are my own and no one elses. If you do not like what you see here, do not read what I have to say.

[This message has been edited by mark440 (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Davidjb]

N2DFire wrote "What if Michael Bishop was in jail/prison for assault after defending himself in a bar fight? What if he wrote bad checks? What if he shoplifted a side of beef to feed his family - would any of you feel differently then? Should you feel diferently"?
I would absolutely feel differently for the first and third situation, and I think most people would. You cannot compare stealing a side of beef to firing on a Police Officer.
One guy just wants to feed his family (although that's not the best way to go about it) and the other has no problem killing some one to avoid being caught and punished for his crime. There are different levels of disregard for law and order, killing a Police Office is, I think the highest level, and this guy had no problem doing that.
I see and understand the reasoning of the opposing opinions, I just cannot agree with them.

[Adler]

I would have to agree that the prisoners do not deserve to get the benefits of professional firefighters. These men committed a crime, no matter how great or small the crime was, and were being held by the state. I think it is great that these men felt proud enough to join and be a member of a positive prison "outreach" program. They are the better inmates, however, they are still inmates. They can not vote in prison and they can not write a book about their crime for a profit, they do not have "normal" individual rights. Let's not forget that they were guests of the state. They made the choice to do the crime that got them there. It was their choice!! I do not want them to get the same benefits of someone who has been a professional firefighter. Let's not get all emotional about this and lose our heads. I thank them for doing "their job" while in prison, evidently doing it well, but they can not be held at the same level. Thank you.

[Adler]

Same as the above, hit submit twice

[This message has been edited by Adler (edited 03-30-2001).]

[FireRebel]

I tend to agree with Adler and Davidjb...Granted these men are doing a service to the public but they also committed a crime and therefore forfet their "american rights"..all prisoners have work detail..some better than others...they all work to pay for their right to have a warm bed to sleep in..if you were a prisoner and had a chance to get out and feel the freedom of the "outside" you would do it too..better than what mess hall duty....they have to know the dangers of the job, so do not cry to me when they get hurt doing this, many, many law-biding FFs get hurt daily doing this, lets spend our time and money fixing that not whining about the men who commit crime..

[NCRSQ751]

I am conflicted over this. On one hand I have to agree with N2DFIRE, they could be sitting cozy in their nice warm jail (unless it's a Hege jail -if your from NC you'll understand) but they aren't...they volunteered to do some pretty difficult work. This isn't picking up trash on the side of the road.

But I have no ability to feel any sympathy for anyone that would fire at a police officer.

Perhaps a better question would be who should be let on these crews? Maybe if it was just the white collar set or the petty criminals we wouldn't feel so strongly about denying them benefits that are largely tied to the job and the sacrifices that go with it - not to their past and what crimes they may have committed.

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Susan Bednar
Forsyth Rescue Squad (Captain)
NCTF-1
Griffith Volunteer FD

[Fire Line]

Micheal Bishop is dead, so he isn't benefiting. It is his family who are seeking the benefits. Don't cast the sins of the father onto an eleven year old girl.
No I'm not a liberal by Canadian standards, but maybe by American standards.

GAY LIBERALS WHALES FOR JESUS