**UPDATE**FDNY and the Vindicator

[mongofire_99]

Big Paulie

to bad you didn't take Bobby's invite to see the Big V do its thing in Lewisville this week.

Yeah, I was even in the area (tithing at the Temple of Bass Fishing) on Thursday evening.

With a open mind I think you would have been impressed.

I have an open mind, but I'm also a skeptic (on just about everything).

Did you guys fight any fire with it?

This hunting and pecking typing is hard on the body.

Man I know what you mean! And as long winded as I can get - it's good aerobic exercise. (How about letting me know your secret for getting the wife to type for you.)

DD

Thanks for the reply. Let me know if you get around to doing a side by side with nozzles of the same bore.

There is a spring loaded mechanism...

Is this like on a combo or something different?

[S. Cook]

Thanks for the good words M G. It's off topic, but since it came up, here's some information on the hoses.

We evaluated 4 hoses - Conquest, Hi-combat, N-Dura and Ponn Supreme

Our evelauation found the Ponn Conquest 1-3/4" hose to be an estimated 1.94" in inside diameter (.06" less than 2" and .19" more than 1-3/4") compared to N-Dura and Ponn Supreme which has an estimated inside diameter of 1-3/4".

How we estimated this:

Measured the empty flat thickness of the hose (Ponn .30 and N-Dura and Ponn Supreme .50), charged the line to 100psi, bled the air out and calculated the diameter from the measured circumference (Ponn 7", N-Dura and Ponn Supreme 6.5") then subtracted the measured empty thickness from the calculated charged to 100psi diameter.

Hi combat measures:

Flat - 0.38"
Charged circumference - 6-3/4"
Estimated inside diameter - 1.77"

What difference did all this make?

Testing all 1-3/4" hose off the same side pump discharge:

Open butt flow at 150psi gauge and EP

Ponn - 48psi pitot = 501gpm
Hi Combat - 36psi pitot = 434gpm
N-Dura - 38psi pitot = 446gpm
Ponn Supreme - 40psi pitot = 457gpm

15/16 at 85psi gauge and EP

Ponn - 60psi pitot = 202gpm
Hi Combat - 52psi pitot = 188gpm
N-Dura - 52psi pitot = 188gpm
Ponn Supreme - 56psi pitot = 195gpm

15/16 at 115psi gauge and EP

Ponn - 85psi pitot = 241gpm
Hi Combat - 70psi pitot = 218gpm
N-Dura - 74psi pitot = 225gpm
Ponn Supreme - 78psi pitot = 231gpm

15/16 at 150psi gauge and EP

Ponn - 110psi pitot = 274gpm
Hi Combat - 100psi pitot = 261gpm
N-Dura - 86psi pitot = 242gpm
Ponn Supreme - 96psi pitot = 256gpm

(A little extra information - at each of these flows a 135# firefighter was on the line alone, handling it as she would on an aggressive inside attack with the exception of advancing it.)

And in nearly 15 years as a firefighter, I have yet to see a hose delaminate. Has anyone else?

[Halligan84]

Scott - About 15 years ago a hose manufacturer provided us a rebuild for a 1500 GPM pump and all new 5" and 3" for 3 engines after we sucked the liner of a 5" through the pump during a high flow relay drill. This was apparently a first generation type of liner and didn't hold up too well. Pretty interesting to see the liner of the hose wrapped around the pump impeller and shaft. It actually caved in the strainer. If I can find a pick I'll send it.

[SBrooks]

Excellent Test scott, just verifying: 2 50' sections used for each?

[KEA]

Scott: Have you had a chance to see which hose expanded the most under pressure? I have found Snap-tite Conquest to expand the least. Angus rates their hose friction loss based on a residual pressure of 100-psi. This is because while at 100-psi it expands thus having a larger ID than when not at 100-psi.

As far as delamination goes, Call Getzville NY VOL fire Department. They had one of the worst cases of delamination in my history and turns out it wasnt just them. Their was a District wide purchase of hose and when they found theirs bad and started checking other departments in the District it was discovered that they all had the problem.

To All:

We have found that the best way to identify a delamination problem is to flow test your new hose to determine a baseline FL number in a new condition. Then during the annual 1962 hose test, also flow test it and compare to the established baseline. Over time you will start to see a degredation pattern for the FL of the hose (depending on brand) indicating a problem.

I had not found any delamination in hose either until we started flow testing it. I have had hose that would pass the pressure test annually yet could not flow more than 100 gpm because of delamination. Getsville, NY was one of those situations. They now have replaced their hose with Snap-tite Ponn Conquest. (No, I did not sell it to them!)

Sorry for being off topic but I thought this information was worth sharing.

Happy Easter



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Kirk Allen
First Strike Technologies, Inc

[William Moran]

My department purchased the Vindicator Heavy Attack nozzle a few months ago and it has worked well in fires. The amount of water the nozzle flows is incredible and the reaction is unbelievibe. My department has been using 15/16" open bore nozzzles and find them very suitable for most situations so the vindicator will be another tool in the tool box.
Good luck, Stay low, Stay safe