**UPDATE**FDNY and the Vindicator

[Ind.FF/EMT]

It appears the FDNY testing of the Vindicator nozzle is going well. As you see in this picture of a 7 Alarm fire.Check out the photo page http://fdnyphoto.com/ that ain't no straight tip in his hands.

Rumor has it Phoenix also has Vindicators.

Wow... FDNY, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Albuquerque, Columbus... Maybe it time for my department to evaluate this new nozzle?

Any input from some FDNY firefighters that have used this nozzle? Is this something that is making the job easier? Does it work well?

[This message has been edited by Ind.FF/EMT (edited 03-29-2001).]

[DOG 4035]

The FDNY is still field testing. And hasn't moved to the next phase. Hopefully the field testing will be completed soon....

But don't hold your breath. Remember the radio thing...


In Safety Move, Fire Department Pulls New Radios From Service

Nearly $5 million worth of new digital radios were taken out of service yesterday after city firefighters found serious problems with their operation, a Fire Department spokesman said.

Safety concerns arose Monday night in Queens, when a firefighter sent out a mayday call on one of the new radios from a basement fire as he was running out of oxygen, several people in the department said. According to one account, the firefighter sent out seven calls, but no one at the scene heard him.

The major point of contention concerned how the radios were tested.

No problems with the radios were found during the tests, he said. Nonetheless, union officials expressed outrage yesterday about what they called the limited testing.

"The Fire Department would never put out a rope or a ladder without testing it first, so one of our questions was, why these radios?" said Tom Butler of the Uniformed Firefighters Association of Greater New York. "We demanded these be taken off before there was a tragedy. We can't have situations where we come close to losing a guy. These radios should have never been out on the street without being tested under real line-of-duty service."

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"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog." STAY SAFE-STAY LOW

[This message has been edited by DOG 4035 (edited 03-31-2001).]

[Fletcher]

Feedback from anyone with field experience using these new nozzles would be appreciated. There must be something special about these nozzles to cause such a buzz with departments like NY, Phoenix, Dallas, etc.

Stay Safe

[ignition_point]

I've used it some, in training, but we don't have them on our apparatus yet. They have very little nozzle reaction compared to most of the combination nozzles we have now, that and it flows quite a bit more GPM's than our regular nozzles have as well. When we had a live burn exercise a while back, at the end we torched the entire structure, just to see what it could do we tossed a couple seconds of water on a fully involved structure, it pretty much knocked all the fire out on the front half of the roof and quite a bit in the attic area, I must say I was impressed.

[PA Volunteer]

Anyone know where we can buy/test these nozzles? Who makes them? Website?

[town/dept]

Do a search in the forums. They have been talked about quite a bit. website? I think first strick technoliges, something like that.

[D.C. Kron]

For the web site check: www.1stStrikeTech.com

[S. Cook]

Ind.FF/EMT just wondering and I mean no offense, but your post sounds like a sales pitch. Do you work for or sell for 1st Strike in any way?

My sources tell me that Dallas and Houston don't keep them on preconnects either. But you should call Dallas and Houston to verify this.

ignition_point, does the Vindicator have a variable pattern like a combo nozzle?

How does it compare with a smooth bore of the same diameter?

[KEA]

S. Cook:
/Ind.FF/EMT just wondering and I mean no offense, but your post sounds like a sales pitch. Do you work for or sell for 1st Strike in any way?/

The answer is no. The only Indiana Firefighter/EMT working for us is Jim Kron from New Albany Indiana.


/My sources tell me that Dallas and Houston don't keep them on preconnects either. But you should call Dallas and Houston to verify this./

Maybe you should call them Scott. Your sources are misfinformed. Contact Captain Read at Station 68. He teaches the tactics class for Houston and did most of the training for those rigs with Vindicators. The only ones not using them on pre-connects (A handfull out of 56 engines) are the ones that have not had any training. I gave you Capatain Reeds info before but you have yet to contact him.

Before it starts, I know LHS, Houston has over 85 engines. Each of the New E-ones came with the nozzle. Until funding is available for the rest we will have to wait.

Scott, you can also Contact Chief Larry Anderson, Chief of Training or Chief Kirk with Dallas. They are the ones responsible for them being placed in the city. I was with them just two weeks ago and they are quite pleased.

/ignition_point, does the Vindicator have a variable pattern like a combo nozzle?/

Scott you know it is not a combination nozzle and I know a variable pattern doesnt matter to you because you use a BIG Paulie nozzle, which for those who dont know, also doesnt have a vaiable pattern.

/How does it compare with a smooth bore of the same diameter?/

The same as your combination nozzles! Orifice size determines flow so if its the same diameter you get the same flow result. What you dont get is the same type of stream.


It still amazes me how contraversial this one product is for some people.

Stay Safe and most of all, Open Minded!

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Kirk Allen
First Strike Technologies, Inc

[This message has been edited by KEA (edited 03-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by KEA (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Ind.FF/EMT]

Scott, no offense taken. For your information at no time have I ever worked for First Strike selling Vindicators or any other nozzle company for that matter. I simply shared some info I thought to be valuable and clearly a topic of interest to many on these boards based on past readings.

If what I posted came across as a sales pitch to you I'm sorry. I personally like the product but our department still does not have them. If my sharing this information would move our department to a point of evaluating the product it would be a good thing. So I guess your partially right, the sales pitch was in hopes that members of my own department would take enough interest because of others use of the nozzle that maybe they would evaluate it.

Have you ever evaluated it Scott? I must admit, in all the discussion the Vindicator has had, I have yet to see an actual user of the product not like it. Oh well, it may not be for everyone. Kind of like a 2500 gallon Quint or Telasquirt.

Stay Safe

[FyredUp]

It just amazes me that anytime anyone mentions the Vindicator nozzle that someone out of either the LHS or Paulie camp have to make the same old tired comments.

If you don't like the nozzle or don't want to use it fine. But stop trying to twist or end all discussion on it on the forums.

By the way Scott I don't now nor have I ever sold Vindicator nozzles. Kirk from First Strike Technology drove to my state, to my small volly fire house, to give us a demonstration of the nozzles. Then he left us 3 to evaluate on our own. We were impressed but have not as yet purchased any.

To quote someone on the forums "The mind works best when it is like a parachute, open"

Take care and stay safe,

FyredUp

[WFDTruck1]

my department just ordered a bunch of them for our 1 3/4 preconnects, they should be in in a few weeks. from all the things im hearing, they should like they are forth it. this is a central jersey FD.

[ignition_point]

The only drawback to the vindicator that I can think of right away, is you can't use it for hydraulic ventilation, however if things are going the way they should on the fireground(and how often does that actually happen? ) you wouldn already have proper mechanical/natural ventialtion setup and wouldn't need hydraulic. I suppose another reason is that you couldn't use it as a water curtain or barrier when advancing against LP/natural gas setups ( or things there-of) to get to the shutoff valves, but also in those incidences it's the risk over gain ratio too.

All in all I think the vindicator is a great nozzle, and certainly does deserve to be looked into if your department is looking at getting new equipment (in my opinion).

[FyredUp]

ignition_point,

One of the things Kirk told us when he was here is that the Vindicator is another tool you add to your toolbox. Not necessarily to replace everything else but to use in addition to the other things you may already have. Obviously in the gas line shut-off scenario you would need a combination nozzle set on fog.

Scott,

Just a thought...How come nobody ever asks LHS or Paulie if they are salespeople when they talk about their interests?

Take care and stay safe,

FyredUp

[mongofire_99]

Maybe it time for my department to evaluate this new nozzle?

I'd evaluate it, then I would decide if an $800 piece of equipment was better for me and the taxpayer than the piece of equipment I already have that is paid for.

They have very little nozzle reaction compared to most of the combination nozzles we have now, that and it flows quite a bit more GPM's than our regular nozzles have as well.

If nozzle reaction was a problem (and personally I don't see how it is except when training is lacking) I would decide if a $200 smoothbore would be better for both reaction and GPMs.

But don't hold your breath. Remember the radio thing...

What's with the radio thing DOG?

My sources tell me that Dallas...

As of a month or so ago, my sources tell me Dallas only has them in training.

It just amazes me that anytime anyone mentions the Vindicator nozzle that someone out of either the LHS or Paulie camp have to make the same old tired comments.

Being fair, the Vindicator crowd has the same old tired comments.

We were impressed but have not as yet purchased any.

How long ago and why haven't you purchased any?