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Ooops: Boston FD ladder truck accident

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    We Recently Bought our 5th Pierce. It was picked up From Blanchard Fire Apparatus on March 27th. We had gone out a week prior to look at it and add the "extras" and guess what truck was sitting right next to it? You got it, the (in)famous Boston ladder. In talking with one of the reps, he stated the ladder section would probably have to be replaced, but the body damage could be fixed. I check my shorts after driving an ambulance on Storrow Drive..No way in Hell would you get me in a stick of ANY kind on that road. I guess I/m just used to the nice open country roads here in the Berkshires..Even though we do have one railroad underpass that seems to be a magnet for tractor trailer trucks

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Okay, if I might ask for clarification, you're talking to a "Firefighter-To-Be." Could I get a definition of primaries, please?

    ------------------
    "I hate it when someone says something is impossible, because then I have to go and find a way to do it."
    Whatever it is, I didn't do it, and I don't know anything about a fire. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
    Stay safe, boys and girls. It's for keeps out there.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    smokeater - how many bridges span PRIMARIES and are less than 13' 6"?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I know that the operator probably had years on driving the old tower, but the pierce was a new beast to him. It takes alot of getting use to to drive a truck. I had my first experience driving a truck around a year ago. It was a scary experience, Cool but scary. Getting your turning radius down,the end of the stick or the basket hangover. It's a totally different animal than an engine. It was an accident though and thank god nobody was hurt. Keep it safe.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    A lot of harping on the operator.
    Yes he, as well as the OIC, should have known the height restrictions, but he wasn't in his first due district or on his regular piece.
    The BFD had been told by the dealer that the tower unit would be able to go wherever any other stick could go. During the response when it hit the bridge they were following right behind another straight stick.
    Overall, it was a bunch of small things that piled up and made a big OUCH.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    No, we can;t just go and rip down all of our so called "dino"s. This would be the equivalent of going to somewhere, say, Venice, and taking out all of their bridges. You would be stranding craploads of roads, and because Boston is packed in ***holes and elbows. So, the only place to put the road divergers ( or whatever they are called) would either be underground ( AKA Big Dig) or to levitate them some thirty or forty feet up.
    I don't mean to rip one. This is not my intent. But, like so many things out there, don't get on your high horse and go babbling off about things such as "getting all over the city about changing things" before you consider how this could possibly be done. Also, as stated before, unless you have been to Boston or seen a ton of pictures and roadmaps, you cannot possibly understand the nuttiness of our grand city.
    Later brothers and sisters. This student needs to get to his homework. Peace.

    ------------------
    "I hate it when someone says something is impossible, because then I have to go and find a way to do it."
    Whatever it is, I didn't do it, and I don't know anything about a fire. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
    Stay safe, boys and girls. It's for keeps out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Resq14:

    Alright, so Boston has lots of mixed old & new construction. That's not the point.

    Is the bridge something significant, like a historic landmark? Is it something famous, like on the route of Paul Revere's Ride?

    Or is it something that the city planners have ignored for too long?

    My original point is the fault lies in more than one lap. Unless the low clearance is not posted, some fault lies with the driver, for not knowing his vehicle's height, and/or not noticing the posted clearance. On the other hand....

    If the city is doing any kind of PROPER development planning, they should be in the process of replacing such hazards. Here's an example:

    Let's say there are three main N/S roads through a section of town. Each is approximately 1 mile from the next. One of them has a "low clearance" bridge that prevents some apparatus to take that one. Conclusion: that road is no longer a "main N/S road". The city has a choice: Either FIX the bridge, or live with 2 roads. If the second choice, then the drivers of the rigs need to pretend like that road isn't a primary.

    Now, if the bridge is not on a primary, fine, it's a low priority, and route around it.

    BUT, what if there aren't 3 roads through that section, but only one? Then it should be a HIGH priority with the city to get the bridge replaced. And if it's not, then the BFD should be using it to educate the public - to put pressure on the city to get the bridge replaced.

    As I said, I don't know Boston. I don't know if that road is the "best" route, or the "only" route. I'm only suggesting that the good citizens of Boston look at how their tax dollars are being spent. Maybe they'd be better served raising bridges, instead of fixing "stuck" fire trucks.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by RJE:
    [b]And if it is worth preserving - then there should be a NEW road that avoids it. /b]
    Build a new road? heh. alllllrighty

    I went to the NCAA hockey regionals last month in 'bean town.' I didn't see any available real estate for new road construction (hence the tunnels and expansion of underground transportation).

    Boston isn't a modern city with a small "old section." It's one huge "old section" that also has lots of modern buildings in it. It's a great place.

    [This message has been edited by Resq14 (edited 04-06-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    If the BFD has a Risk Management division, the fact that none of the brothers was seriously hurt will probably not be the end of the story. In my dept, there would be a headhunter looking for someone.

    Our folks don't believe in 'accidents.'

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    The wrecked Pierce rig was assigned to the Tower Co. at the time of accident. They have only one (Currently) and that means it can go city wide (With some exceptions because of the size of the rig they send an additional Truck Co. on the WFD where the Tower can not go). Everyone makes mistakes, yes this was an expevsive one, but I bet Pierce eats it with a smile. Chaulk it up to trying to get their foot in the door so to speak. As long as the brothers are O.K., then the rest is unimportant. As far as the Pierce vs E-One thing goes: I gaurantee that other BFD Truck Co.'s go under the same bridge and they are ALL E-One. That Pierce may be a little to large for the City right now. As for Resq14, your right on target. The bridge would have been on side one with the Tower when they pulled into the block. Be safe.

    Larry

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    First of all I am glad the FF's are ok.
    Someone brought up the point of crash testing. Hmmm I have never seen any published reports on crash testing by any manufacture.. Sorry I may have missed that. I will say this it doesn't matter who manufactured it, if your driving a Cab front mount Unit look again at what is protecting you.

    tc/ss

    Fight like you Train and Train like you Fight..


    [This message has been edited by FF.1205 (edited 04-03-2001).]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    None of us know or may ever know all of the details. From the picture it looks like the truck just hit the bridge. It's not like they hit at the rungs.
    Was the bridge height posted on the bridge? It is supposed to be visible but who knows.
    Did the city resurface and now the street is a few inches closer to the bridge deck?

    It is unfortunate that the incident happened it is easy to say that he should have known but how many of you never make mistakes. I don't think the driver deserves such harsh criticism from some of you.

    Remember the next post could be about what you or your department just did.

    Stay safe

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Yes I've heard of the "Big Dig". It's a nice idea. I'm not sure it's worth the money, but that's another issue.

    No, I've never been to Boston, but I am familiar with historic "old town" areas. Where I grew up, part of the old downtown is the oldest incorporated town west of the Mississippi. But obviously that's not on the scale of Boston. And I did spend some time in N. Virginia.

    So here's my point. If that bridge is historic, a landmark, on a famous route, or whatever, then it's worth preserving. But if it's 200+ years old, I doubt if it's wide enough for a multi-lane thoroughfare. So you have a choice. If it's not old enough to be worth preserving --- then WHY IS IT "PRESERVED" --- except for bureaucratic malaise. And if it is worth preserving - then there should be a NEW road that avoids it. And in either case, it needs to be clearly marked in every map book. Every FAO that is near it (1st response or "immediately" surrounding areas (not someone from clear across town - and don't talk to me about "big" towns - KCMO may have 1/4 of Boston's population, but if you start out on the north edge and drove to the south edge, the equivalent drive in Boston would put you in Connecticut!) needs to know it is there. And every dispatcher needs to warn any "out of district" units to avoid it.

    Now, if that's ONE bridge, those conditions are not that unreasonable. If there are HUNDREDS of these dinosaurs, then you guys from BFD and surrounds should be raising holy hell about whatever they're wasting "road improvements" tax money on, and get these brought up to current specs. And I know they aren't ALL "historic landmarks".

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Amen.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    4) The city is also responsible. There's no reason for any major municipality to leave old, sub-standard bridges in place. And I know this one is, or else they approved it for new construction that way. Either way, that's just plain stupid. DOT standard is 13'6". That 11'9"? truck shouldn't have had a problem. Time for the city to get to work replacing the bridge - especially as it's on a thoroughfare.

    So what can the rest of us learn from this - (the sign of true genius - learning from OTHER's mistakes) - PRE-PLAN, PRE-PLAN, PRE-PLAN, even out of district - including alternate routes. That, and lobby your local governments to "fix" hazards along those routes, whatever they may be.


    Being from Needham, about 20 minutes west of Boston, let me simply put my 2 cents in..
    First off, the city of Boston is currently undergoing renovations. Ever hear of the Big Dig? The biggest public works project in recent times, if not ever? Taking an entire expressway, and putting it underground, underneath one of the oldest cities in this grand Republic of ours.
    While on the topic of ranting, let me ask you this: Have you ever visited Boston? It is imposible to know every turn, curve, dip, hole, and bridge. This is not some little dinky town with a single overpass where the state highway runs over main street. This is Boston, a large, ever changing municipality that has been around far longer than most of the little towns and almost all other cities.
    Finally, this city is rife and rich with history. We can't, and won't, just up and rip out bridges and whatnot, just to make evrything "look nicer."
    My point in all this ranting is this: Before you go and get all high and mighty on your horse, do your reaserch, and know what you are talking about.

    ------------------
    "I hate it when someone says something is impossible, because then I have to go and find a way to do it."
    Whatever it is, I didn't do it, and I don't know anything about a fire. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
    Stay safe, boys and girls. It's for keeps out there.

    Leave a comment:

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