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  • Schiteberger's FDIC speach

    What do you guys think about his FDIC speech ? For a leader that tends to alienate allies he seems to want to work "together", why?
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

  • #2
    If he wants to show unity, a brotherhood, then drop the volunteer rule.

    I then will never use his name in vain again, and attempt to work with him and the union to help BOTH of our goals.

    Keep the rule, then you are still against the Volunteers. You can't have it both ways.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LVFD301 View Post
      If he wants to show unity, a brotherhood, then drop the volunteer rule.
      ....
      You can't have it both ways.
      You probably missed the irony of your statement. The "volunteer rule" is exactly that; a statement that you can't have it both ways.

      Either belong to the IAFF or belong to an organization in competition with the IAFF. Choose which one is more important to you. You can't have it both ways.
      "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
      sigpic
      The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
        Either belong to the IAFF or belong to an organization in competition with the IAFF. Choose which one is more important to you. You can't have it both ways.
        Here is what has made me dislike him from the get go is that I work 30 minutes away from where I live. I volunteer near my home (total seperate dept) and a total VOLUNTEER dept. There aren't going to be any career positions in my VFD for decades to come (if ever that). So just because of that rule I can't join because I do both and I can't volunteer in my local VFD because I am a member. So, if I don't get to volunteer my community has one less experienced person and I am in my 25th year
        Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Capt387 View Post
          Here is what has made me dislike him from the get go is that I work 30 minutes away from where I live. I volunteer near my home (total seperate dept) and a total VOLUNTEER dept. There aren't going to be any career positions in my VFD for decades to come (if ever that). So just because of that rule I can't join because I do both and I can't volunteer in my local VFD because I am a member. So, if I don't get to volunteer my community has one less experienced person and I am in my 25th year
          You might want to check on that, because it is my understanding that the by-law in question does not prevent you from volunteering in the situation you describe. The restriction is about volunteering in a department who's firefighters are represented by the IAFF and/or membership in a "rival organization". To the best of my knowledge, VFDs are not classified as "rival organizations" simply because they are VFDs.
          Last edited by FireMedic049; 03-24-2011, 06:57 PM.

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          • #6
            Whatever happened to Al Whitehead since he retired? He seemed so much more graceful and sincere compared to Schaitburger.
            DFW



            "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by FireMedic049 View Post
              You might want to check on that, because it is my understanding that the by-law in question does not prevent you from volunteering in the situation you describe.
              Anybody got that bylaw handy?

              The two IAFF locals in this area differ slightly in their approach to volunteers.

              One (federal) simply doesn't care.

              The other doesn't care, although the volunteers aren't allowed to display volunteer paraphenalia on their POVs in the parking lot. In fact, the current chief there is a former volunteer chief. AFAIK, though, the IAFF guys won't respond with their volunteer departments into the city, should they be called.
              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                You probably missed the irony of your statement. The "volunteer rule" is exactly that; a statement that you can't have it both ways.

                Either belong to the IAFF or belong to an organization in competition with the IAFF. Choose which one is more important to you. You can't have it both ways.
                A volunteer fire department is not a competing organization just because it exists. Neither of the 2 volunteer fire departments I am a member of compete with any career fire departments and neither is eliminatng or denying employment of career firefighters. Between the 2 FDs there is perhaps a total of 200-250 calls a year, not including ems. Neither FD, NOR the 2 combined, has a budget large enough to sustain 1 career FF, let alone enough to have a fully staffed single engine company 24/7.

                I completely understand and agree with the idea of not volunteering back to the FD you work for, and I agree that if you are a volly it is not appropriate to respond mutual aid into the community you work for. But the idea that you shouldn't volunteer to ANY volunteer FD is just plain stupid to me. Both of the FDs I volunteer for are communities well under 1000 people and the pool to draw from is small since most people work out of the area. These people are my friends and neighbors and I will not turn my back on them. By the way, both of these volly FDs are almost 100 miles away from where I work and 12 and 17 miles from the closest FD with career FFs.

                In my mind the IAFF is missing the boat and the Teamsters have started to Unionize some part time FFs and POC FFs. By the time the IAFF wakes up to the number of new members it has passed over it will be hard to convince those people to come on board to an organization that has long called them "competing organizations."

                By the way, I believe the only true competing orgaizations are private fire and ems companies that attempt to, and sometimes succeed, in taking over local fire and ems services.
                Last edited by FyredUp; 03-24-2011, 08:19 PM.
                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                Millions of people living as foes
                Maybe it's not too late
                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Capt387 View Post
                  So just because of that rule I can't join because I do both and I can't volunteer in my local VFD because I am a member.
                  Are there IAFF departments adjacent to your hometown volunteer department? Would you expect to run mutual aid to them? If not, I see no conflict. The rule has always been against not belonging to "rival organizations" and it has always been understood that a volunteer department remote from any IAFF department isn't a rival.

                  Originally posted by dfwfirefighter View Post
                  Whatever happened to Al Whitehead since he retired? He seemed so much more graceful and sincere compared to Schaitburger.
                  Can't argue with that. Al was a lot more personable.

                  Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                  A volunteer fire department is not a competing organization just because it exists.
                  I agree.
                  Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 03-24-2011, 08:20 PM.
                  "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                  sigpic
                  The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                    A volunteer fire department is not a competing organization just because it exists.


                    In my mind the IAFF is missing the boat and the Teamsters have started to Unionize some part time FFs and POC FFs. By the time the IAFF wakes up to the number of new members it has passed over it will be hard to convince those people to come on board to an organization that has long called them "competing organizations."
                    I agree with you, but you do realize the issue with volunteers is not with volunteering, but volunteering in depts that can or has career FF's?


                    I have seen many volunteers who are against the IAFF just because they believe the IAFF is against volunteers. That isn't the case. Then you have some who think the issue is about volunteering AND being a career FF, again not the case. The issue is a career FF volunteering with a combination dept where there are other IAFF members already there, or a community which can easily afford career personnel but refuse to do so.

                    The issue about unionizing POC or part time FF's could be a consideration. Thing is I'm doubting many such folks are looking to unionize, nor have much of a reason too. I guess it depends entirely on the situation.
                    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
                      I agree with you, but you do realize the issue with volunteers is not with volunteering, but volunteering in depts that can or has career FF's?

                      I have stated on these forums on numerous occasions that I agree with not volunteering, if you are a career FF, into a FD with career personnel.

                      I will take exception with part of your comment here though. It may not be the policy of the International, but it certainly is the policy of SOME locals to prevent volunteering, even in small rural communities with no career personnel. There are also SOME career firefighters that view ALL volunteers as scabs and hobbyist, even if their training level is higher than theirs.

                      My opinion has been, and remains, as long as I am not breaking the law, what I do off duty is neither the Unions, nor the department's business.




                      I have seen many volunteers who are against the IAFF just because they believe the IAFF is against volunteers. That isn't the case. Then you have some who think the issue is about volunteering AND being a career FF, again not the case. The issue is a career FF volunteering with a combination dept where there are other IAFF members already there, or a community which can easily afford career personnel but refuse to do so.

                      See above. When you have SOME Union FFs calling ALL volunteers scab hobbyists, and you have SOME vollunteer FFs calling ALL career FFs mercenaries in it only for the money...you simply can't have serious discourse on the topic.

                      I guess my attitude about affording career FFs is a tough one. IF the volunteer FD is handling the call load what is the need to replace them with career FFs? Generally the replacing volunteers, or supplementing volunteers with some paid personnel, is predicated by failure to handle the call load with sufficient volunteers. Not solely based on ability to pay.


                      The issue about unionizing POC or part time FF's could be a consideration. Thing is I'm doubting many such folks are looking to unionize, nor have much of a reason too. I guess it depends entirely on the situation.

                      You may believe that there is little call for it but I know of one FD that staffs entirely with part-timers and they are Teamsters. Not in our area but I have read about other states having POC FFs Unionized.

                      Google Teamster firefighters...

                      I have long said, and mean it 100% seriously, firefighters are their own worst enemy. If we would work together we could accomplish so much, but no, we have met the enemy and he is us. Pathetic...
                      Last edited by FyredUp; 03-24-2011, 11:24 PM.
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do the Nursing unions have rules against nurses volunteering for non profits?

                        Is this comparison way off?
                        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                          Do the Nursing unions have rules against nurses volunteering for non profits?

                          Doesn't apply to this situation.

                          Is this comparison way off?

                          Yes.
                          Does that answer your question?
                          Crazy, but that's how it goes
                          Millions of people living as foes
                          Maybe it's not too late
                          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There should be a united front. Neither side has been perfect. The IAFF dudes gets made at volly associations for advocating solely for volunteers, then the volunteers hate the IAFF because they think they care only about career guys. The fact is we should work together. Both sides have been wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                              I completely understand and agree with the idea of not volunteering back to the FD you work for, and I agree that if you are a volly it is not appropriate to respond mutual aid into the community you work for. But the idea that you shouldn't volunteer to ANY volunteer FD is just plain stupid to me. Both of the FDs I volunteer for are communities well under 1000 people and the pool to draw from is small since most people work out of the area. These people are my friends and neighbors and I will not turn my back on them. By the way, both of these volly FDs are almost 100 miles away from where I work and 12 and 17 miles from the closest FD with career FFs
                              Why is it not ok to volunteer back to the dept you work for? If you live in the county you work for and they are a combo dept, Then why shouldn't you volunteer on your days off.
                              If thats what you want to do.

                              Manpower is manpower.
                              Get the first line into operation.

                              Comment

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