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Training for the General Public on MVA's

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  • Training for the General Public on MVA's

    I thought about calling this post "Question on POV lights" so somebody would look at it.

    I have been asked by the management at my job to put together a 15-20 minute presentation on what our sales reps should do when they come upon an MVA. Reps, like myself, drive around 45k miles a year and tend to see more than the average driver. Most have no first aid training, and that isn't the intent of this short session. We travel mainly rural areas.

    Topics in mind:

    Calling 911 and what they will ask
    How to find your location on GPS (we all have a Garmin) if you aren't sure.
    What other info dispatch should have.
    Scene Safety
    Where to park
    Do a size up before running at the victims
    When not to approach (power lines, hazmat, etc.)
    What situations warrant moving a victim before FD/EMS arrives.
    Describing the severity of damage, approx speed.
    How to find counciling if they see something that bothers them.


    I've been in the Fire/EMS service for close to 20 years, and think I know (or should know) what to talk about. Never really thought about MVA's from a "civilian" standpoint. Thought I'd see if anyone else has done something like this.
    Jeremy Quist
    Chief
    LVFD
    Laurel, NE

    Not the end of the earth, but you can see clods falling off from here.

  • #2
    I would say learn CPR an simple first aid

    Carry a good size fire extinguisher


    When not to set flare

    How to direct traffic

    Car safety such as underployed air bags

    Get out of the way once helps arrives unless they ask for help
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdEH...e_gdata_player

    Comment


    • #3
      I think thats a pretty good list and should be able to fill a 45 minute presentation. I've never thought about MVA's from the civilian side, it makes you think. I do like the idea of carrying fire extinguishers.
      Fire Service Interview questions - The blog that has REAL interview questions for firefighters, Engineers, Lieutenants, and Captains !

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      • #4
        Scene safety and situational awareness are definitely factors you should discuss - we lose enough firefighters with BRTs on scene as it is - somebody running around without the benefit of blocking apparatus and visibility garments could find themselves in real trouble, real fast.

        Your list implies that your folks should stay on scene until other responders arrive - an idea I love even if they never get out of the vehicle. Far too often incidents are called in by someone who keeps on going on their merry way and has no idea exactly where the incident actually is. Add two or three more people doing the same thing and responders are chasing multiple instances of the same incident...
        Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

        Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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        • #5
          Not all EMS is fire based so check for entrapment, the FD may have to be special called.
          ?

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          • #6
            I don't think asking someone to stop, if it is safe to do so, is asking too much. Do you guys think it is? That way dispatch could call them back to confirm location, vehicles involved, etc. I can't believe the number of people that will call in and barely tap the brakes to see if they could help....probably why I got into this in the first place.

            First Aid and CPR training will come to follow this session, hopefully. Right now, we'd like our people to just be more helpful than average.

            I'll probably avoid training on directing traffic. These folks won't have flares, lights, or reflective clothing. It might open us up to liability by encouraging that.

            At least a 10lb extunguisher would be a great idea to add in our pickups.

            We also have some extremely rural areas, so much that it has happened that the medivac helo will beat the FD. (I travel an area in central Nebraska) Having someone on scene that can relay if the chopper is in the right spot would be really great.

            Good point on the EMS/FD separation issue. In the small town/rural setting here, an MVA is auto page for both. The FD usually ends up doing traffic, as the nearest law enforcement can be further away than they are.

            I'm going to visit with our dispatch and the State Patrol on this as well.
            Last edited by lenny91; 03-22-2011, 12:22 AM.
            Jeremy Quist
            Chief
            LVFD
            Laurel, NE

            Not the end of the earth, but you can see clods falling off from here.

            Comment


            • #7
              Teach when and when not to extricate someone from a vehicle. Most times the act of pulling someone out of a wreck does more harm than good.
              IAFF

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              • #8
                that dust from the airbag and steam from broken hoses under the hood doesn't mean the car is on fire

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                • #9
                  Man, I am torn. Part of me wants to say tell them to call 911 and continue on their way, but they may be able to do some good.

                  A couple of points I would go for - bear in mind that it has to be in their comfort zone. Some of the reps may have no desire to get out of their car. If that is the case, I don't see it serves any purpose to have them stay on the scene, we continue to get calls about minor accidents even after PD is on the scene often times.

                  If they are not a witness, and they have been asked to leave, or told they can leave, or that no help is needed, take off. I need to ease congestion at the scene.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lenny91 View Post
                    I don't think asking someone to stop, if it is safe to do so, is asking too much. Do you guys think it is? That way dispatch could call them back to confirm location, vehicles involved, etc. I can't believe the number of people that will call in and barely tap the brakes to see if they could help....probably why I got into this in the first place.
                    As I said before, staying on the scene until released is a great idea, especially if there is any chance that there could be multiple reports by those "tap the brakes" passersby. And for all the reasons already given.

                    Our dispatch reports an average of 10 calls for any given MVA on the Interstate. They also note that the calls usually stop when the first "light" gets on the scene.

                    Looking forward - You'll want a briefing you can provide to new hires, and a refresher that you can give periodically. Not regurgitating the same info, rather highlighting pertinent points.

                    Under the heading of CYA, you may want to draft up an SOP for management to sign off on - it could spare an employee from some hassle for stopping at a scene some time down the road. You could also condense that SOP into a small brochure to be carried in your vehicles - which could double as an incident report form - who, what, when, where, etc.

                    You might also want to speak with your insurance carrier. While in general your folks would be covered by good Samaritan laws, better safe than sorry.

                    This program could also be a PR plus for you one of these days. I don't know that I'd advertise it ahead of time, but if one of your people is somehow instrumental in a good outcome, a "we're here to help" ad can't hurt.
                    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      while this sounds like a really good idea - you need to think about loiability, liability, liability.....what happens if someone stops, then ends up being part of another accident while on the scene? Are they covered by workers' comp, regular insurance etc.....

                      As for extinguishers- remember that the people need to be trained on how to properly use them, and there is maintenance of the extinguisher itself - can't just let it sit in the same place....they do go bad/fail.....

                      Having someone stay on the scene to give additional directions is good - yes, many time the PD will get multiple calls for a single incident, but there are also times when everyone seems to think that 'someone else' already called.....had that one night when I was a dispatcher - what ended up as a fatal accident had only ONE caller.....yet fender benders got multiples.....

                      If the people drive the same routes time after time, get them to notice landmarks/road names.....much easier sometimes than giving a mile post marker number.....or even a mailbox number.....

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