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VES question....

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  • FyredUp
    replied
    To add to my post above...

    Calculated risk is a huge part of our job, but what purpose is served in placing a ladder, taking the risk, and then having the ladder kick out as we ascend the ladder to make the rescue, or as we descend after making the victim removal? It does us, or the victim, no good, for the operation to fail because we didn't take the time to secure the ladder. A 10 to 20 foot drop or more on the concrete can be crippling or deadly.

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  • powerhourcoug
    replied
    Duh.

    If given the choice, I would obviously want the ladder footed.

    I was providing an example where it wasn't, and it worked.

    It also proves that we can't always mitigate the risk to zero to get the job done.



    I'm not judging anyone's intent...just fueling discussion, because life, and this job throws curveballs at us...and the world is not an IFSTA manual or giant FF1 test.



    Rhetorical Question...

    If someone told you YOUR kids were stuck in a second floor bedroom in a situation where immediate VES will be neccessary to save their lives, and you were by yourself with a ladder and the appropriate tools with no immediate help and nothing but concrete to slam it on....what would you do?
    Last edited by powerhourcoug; 03-01-2011, 12:34 AM.

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  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by powerhourcoug View Post
    I call BS.

    Most residences in my area have yards with soft ground, especially in the vicinity of bedroom windows.

    If you foot the ladder forcefully you can dig the butt spurs in pretty deep, more than enough to create some stability. If there is a pronounced sill it can act to brace the ladder as well.

    Sometimes, and in some jurisdictions we won't have the luxury of having someone to foot the ladder at the moment we climb it.

    Seconds count. We signed up for a job that can be dangerous at times. Our citizens do not have the luxury of wearing PPE, and are counting on us to do the right thing.
    You can call BS all you want but your circumstances don't hold true everywhere. In many cases the city I work in has homes with driveways on both sides. One for the home in question, and the other for the neighboring house. so both sides of the house had no grass at all or a very narrow strip between the driveway and the house. For VES, the grass area, if any, was generally in the wrong place.

    If there is no way to solidly anchor the butt, either by sinking it in the grass, or dirt, or by tieing it off to a solid object, it must be butted by another firefighter.

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  • powerhourcoug
    replied
    I call BS.

    There was a firefighter in Seattle who did a VES into a dormer on a 1.5 story house on New Years Day w/o someone footing the latter, on a concrete driveway, in a situation that demanded immediate action and a calculated risk based on years of experience and training. He made the save.

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/26377483/detail.html

    Sometimes, and in some jurisdictions we won't have the luxury of having someone to foot the ladder at the moment we climb it.

    Seconds count. We signed up for a job that can be dangerous at times. Our citizens do not have the luxury of wearing PPE, and are counting on us to do the right thing. They pay us good money to take risks when saveable lives are on the line.
    Last edited by powerhourcoug; 02-28-2011, 11:54 PM.

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  • admpaul
    replied
    Some one needs to hold or heal the ladder. You can also tie the ladder to something stable.

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  • Bushwhacker
    replied
    Originally posted by Deluge059 View Post
    I know this is going to possibly open a floodgate of nonsense, but I have a legitimate VES question.
    Its sad I have to put a disclaimer, but im just looking for the answer to the question and not all the other junk that follows when a question is asked in this place. So please, just answer the question and move on.

    During VES, the ladder is placed just under the windowsill. The VES class I recently took, we were using a house that was surrounded by dirt/grass and the ladder was basically being footed by getting buried in the grass/dirt.
    How does it work if you're throwing ladders on concrete? The VES ladder is "technically" not at the proper climbing angle, so wouldn't there be an issue if you have it on concrete?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi5ZsUKxZvM

    Heal your ladder, Period. it doesn't matter if your doing VES or any other sweet acronym

    Leave a comment:


  • Deluge059
    started a topic VES question....

    VES question....

    I know this is going to possibly open a floodgate of nonsense, but I have a legitimate VES question.
    Its sad I have to put a disclaimer, but im just looking for the answer to the question and not all the other junk that follows when a question is asked in this place. So please, just answer the question and move on.

    During VES, the ladder is placed just under the windowsill. The VES class I recently took, we were using a house that was surrounded by dirt/grass and the ladder was basically being footed by getting buried in the grass/dirt.
    How does it work if you're throwing ladders on concrete? The VES ladder is "technically" not at the proper climbing angle, so wouldn't there be an issue if you have it on concrete?

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