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  • dfwfirefighter
    replied
    I am not sure if I understand the question.

    The first time you ever encountered a trauma (or any other) scene will be very different from how you arrive (i.e. mentally prepare) for any given situation 20 years later.

    By that point, you should have gained enough "street experience" and training to handle yourself accordingly.

    But then again, the following phrase comes to mind: "You can have 20 years of experience OR one year of experience 20 times".

    It all boils down to your personal drive/motivation (i.e. give a sh*t factor).

    Leave a comment:


  • backsteprescue
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Take this in the proper light. In view of what you just told me,I'd say you didn't IRON your scene enough. ANY call that takes a Life affects me deeply but NOT to the point I can't do MY job. I've cut buddies out of vehicles and to be honest,never realized it until later.The who is wasn't my FOCUS,getting them OUT was. I stand by what I said,IF it involves OUR members,WE WILL be working the job. We're fortunate to have some of the best people in the area and THEY are the ones I want working on the problem. T.C.
    No worries, I completely understand where you're coming from. Needless to say since the accident we have like you said "put more iron" on the scene.

    I'd like to think that I would be able to still function, but I wasn't on this scene and haven't been faced with anything close to this short of transporting a good friends mom and having her arrest in the back of the medic unit.

    Leave a comment:


  • tree68
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    ANY call that takes a Life affects me deeply but NOT to the point I can't do MY job.
    Everybody has their call. Hopefully they'll be able to keep it together until after the call is over, but everyone is different. Never say never.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    That was the mindset here until it actually happened....

    About 5 years ago in January we had crews out on the interstate for an relatively minor MVA. Two guys were in the car, one standing next to it, and the fourth up on the pump panel. Roads were real bad and icy and a van drove straight past the blocking apparatus, and into the car flipping it over onto the one guy and running one police officer over and pinning another between the cars. The only man left standing was the pump operator. He called it in and asked for mutual aid immediately. Our Rescue Squad was about 3-4 minutes away and even once they got on scene they could hardly operate. A full crew of aggressive balls to the wall firemen and they could barely do anything except care for their buddies. Next department got there and got the car off the one guy, got everyone out etc. Our 3 injured guys were all taken to trauma centers and eventually came back to work.... granted it was a long time, but they made it back to full duty. Both cops were also made traumas and ended up having to retire on disability from the accident.

    That makes 3 cops for a police department of about 25-30 guys in the past 5 years that have been struck by vehicles and had to medically retire.

    We get our fair share of bad wrecks and bad calls and having people to talk to is a huge help.

    About 2 months after my best friend's son was born we were working together and went out at 630 one Saturday morning for an unconscious pediatric. The 2 month old child had passed away during the night and we worked him all the way to the hospital. My buddy was very professional but once we got to the hospital and transferred care, he broke down. This is one of the toughest guys I know, 2 tours in Iraq, just an all around great guy and he was a mess. He ended up going home shortly after returning to quarters and a few hours later asked if I could stop by and we talked all day.

    The first call that I really noticed affected me was a few years back when a 12 year old girl got struck by a car on a busy road (speed limit 55). The girl was thrown about 75 feet down the road. One of our guys lived a few doors down and started CPR immediately, we got on scene, did our ALS stuff, and ended up flying her to a trauma center. Like some of the others mentioned, it seems like you just hit the snooze button on emotions or whatever, and I was fine until about 2 hours later when I was driving out of town to visit a friend. I had to pull over and call our department chaplain because it all of a sudden hit me that this girl was not much younger than my sister.

    It's rough, but just remember that there are always people to talk to. And if you aren't feeling well after a call, chances are that the rest of the crew isn't either.
    Take this in the proper light. In view of what you just told me,I'd say you didn't IRON your scene enough. ANY call that takes a Life affects me deeply but NOT to the point I can't do MY job. I've cut buddies out of vehicles and to be honest,never realized it until later.The who is wasn't my FOCUS,getting them OUT was. I stand by what I said,IF it involves OUR members,WE WILL be working the job. We're fortunate to have some of the best people in the area and THEY are the ones I want working on the problem. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • backsteprescue
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Never had to do that HERE but if it were to happen, it WILL be OUR members doing the Extrication. The member is OURS and WE WILL take care of them. Chaplain on Staff and CISD team available on a moments notice. T.c.
    That was the mindset here until it actually happened....

    About 5 years ago in January we had crews out on the interstate for an relatively minor MVA. Two guys were in the car, one standing next to it, and the fourth up on the pump panel. Roads were real bad and icy and a van drove straight past the blocking apparatus, and into the car flipping it over onto the one guy and running one police officer over and pinning another between the cars. The only man left standing was the pump operator. He called it in and asked for mutual aid immediately. Our Rescue Squad was about 3-4 minutes away and even once they got on scene they could hardly operate. A full crew of aggressive balls to the wall firemen and they could barely do anything except care for their buddies. Next department got there and got the car off the one guy, got everyone out etc. Our 3 injured guys were all taken to trauma centers and eventually came back to work.... granted it was a long time, but they made it back to full duty. Both cops were also made traumas and ended up having to retire on disability from the accident.

    That makes 3 cops for a police department of about 25-30 guys in the past 5 years that have been struck by vehicles and had to medically retire.

    We get our fair share of bad wrecks and bad calls and having people to talk to is a huge help.

    About 2 months after my best friend's son was born we were working together and went out at 630 one Saturday morning for an unconscious pediatric. The 2 month old child had passed away during the night and we worked him all the way to the hospital. My buddy was very professional but once we got to the hospital and transferred care, he broke down. This is one of the toughest guys I know, 2 tours in Iraq, just an all around great guy and he was a mess. He ended up going home shortly after returning to quarters and a few hours later asked if I could stop by and we talked all day.

    The first call that I really noticed affected me was a few years back when a 12 year old girl got struck by a car on a busy road (speed limit 55). The girl was thrown about 75 feet down the road. One of our guys lived a few doors down and started CPR immediately, we got on scene, did our ALS stuff, and ended up flying her to a trauma center. Like some of the others mentioned, it seems like you just hit the snooze button on emotions or whatever, and I was fine until about 2 hours later when I was driving out of town to visit a friend. I had to pull over and call our department chaplain because it all of a sudden hit me that this girl was not much younger than my sister.

    It's rough, but just remember that there are always people to talk to. And if you aren't feeling well after a call, chances are that the rest of the crew isn't either.

    Leave a comment:


  • TenEight
    replied
    Originally posted by nameless View Post
    boy do I try, but she says its disgusting.
    Don't we all...

    Leave a comment:


  • FiremanLyman
    replied
    Three quick thoughts.

    1) Remain unattached. View patients as an object that you have to correct a deficiency (airway, breathing, circulation). Continue to treat them with care and respect, but as an object. You start thinking about the patient's wife/kids/mother and you will become combat ineffective.

    2) Give the patient the best interventions within your scope of care. Remember that if you were not there, then someone else would be giving care and who knows how well they would be doing? Since you are there you know they are getting the best care possible.

    3) This line of work is not for everybody.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeyboy
    replied
    Emotions.....

    1st off... careyc1090, great job with the diversion. That is a under utilized tool that works wonders, so kudos to you.

    If I didn't have the wife I have, I may not have gotten through a lot of hard times while on the job. She has been a great listener and supporter during some pretty hard times.
    I'm in the same boat as Jonnee, my wife is awesome. She was an EMT, did lots of ride-outs, knows the FS and let's me vent when I need to.

    As a member of our Regional CISM Team (it's new, and incorporates 3 different FDs) I also agree and recommend this comment:
    You never want to surpress anything. It is better to get it out than to keep it bottled up inside.
    During CISM Group Intervention, we had a retired CalFire Captain explain it this way: Our emotions are like clothes we are taking on a vacation. We put them into a suitcase and store them until needed. As the emotions build-up we can either keep storing them and eventually our "suit case" loses it's zipper and the emotions blow out and make a mess. Or, we can organize our emotions and keep space available for positive things we want to keep. The choice is up to the individual.

    I've had one of those careers that many here have had; lots of fatalities (T/C, F/S, M/A, R/Q), lots of kids calls (I'm a father of 3 girls and 1 boy) and grew-up professionally with the "Man-up" environment which does work. You will be de-sensitized to many things that happen and this will/may spill over into your personal life. About 5-6 months ago I lost my Grandfather (helped raise me as a we bit lad) and dealt with this in my own Family. It was interesting how thinking back now, it effected myself and a cousin of mine (he's a Sheriff's Deputy) a lot different than it did most of my Family. We were the ones that made sure the DNR was current, relieved the Nurse of her Daily Duties whenever possible, funeral arrangements were done since he was a Vet (WW II Tanker, under Patton) and we started bringing a second shirt anytime we were up there from the tears and mascara that stained a really nice shirt I liked (wow, that reads really insensitive). LOL.

    My suggestion is to talk about it between your Crew and be honest about how you feel..... If needed call your CISM Contact Person and ask them to come-over for a cup of coffee, bowl of chili, bowl of ice cream or just a plain old chat. We like to be invited, and actually only go where we are invited. If your wife (I don't recommend doing this with a girlfriend) is involved in Emergency Services than extra bonus, feel free to use her as a "Venting Board". If you are going to do this though, give her a heads-up and ask her now (while you're in a non-emotional mood) if she's cool with that. Advise her what you want; somebody to hear, somebody to listen (there is a HUGE difference), somebody to give you a different perspective, somebody to tell you that you're not alone in this, you're not the only person that has felt this way (I guarantee you this) and that she loves you no matter what you see. If you're a faith based person, doing this plus studying what emotions you are experiencing has helped me in the past so I'd also suggest that. If not, then talk about it and act out in a healthy manner.

    You may not realize this, but by posting this you have already started a process for healing here. If you need to, feel free to send me a P.M. anytime and I'm willing to listen, read, give you a different perspective or whatever you need to keep you working. I'm not a "Head Shrinker", going to place judgment, the solve-all/cure-all or have a Phd behind my name but I am a peer and also a willing set of ears/eyes to read what you are experiencing.

    Stay safe my friends.....
    Last edited by mikeyboy; 02-27-2011, 02:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • careyc1090
    replied
    Hey TenEight, which of the past wives are you speaking of?

    In all seriousness though, after a horrendous call, the best place to lay your cards is on the House Kitchen Table... or with your senior man.
    Don't be afraid to open up a discussion about a bad call at the House.

    As a Captain with 32 years, I feel it's on me to open the talk and deal with any upcoming demons...Lord knows I've done well from some 4 in the morning hashing things out.

    Small story...
    Twin engine plane runs out of fuel WELL short of Runway 36 around 9:30AM and lands in a major city intersection, bouncing off a 5 ton truck, a city bus and folding up on itself 100' form a propane storage at a gas station.
    My rescue's task was to extricate the 2 remaining passengers from the tail area of the aircraft... 1 died as we accomplished this.

    The meat of this story is that after we returned to station, cleaned and readied equipment, we went back on Duty.
    I could tell that some of my crew was deeply affected.
    That afternoon, I placed our Rescue "Off Duty" for Water Rescue Training at about 13:30.
    We needed that diversion time.
    I'm sure that a lot was brought home that night but I'm also sure that everyone on my crew knew we were all dealing with the call together.

    Leave a comment:


  • slackjawedyokel
    replied
    Agreed 100% Rescue 101 -

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by admpaul View Post
    Joined a dept on monday night tuesday morning double fatality, one other med flight out. Another accident; we had one of our young members killed in a mva by two semi's. 21yr old. We called another department to cut him out, this has been the only time i've seen a dept unable to do anything other than take our hats off as he was carted by. Only time i've seen ff's break down at a scene. Kids are the hardest and at acciedents we just need to man up get the job done and if you need to talk about it do it later or in church.
    Never had to do that HERE but if it were to happen, it WILL be OUR members doing the Extrication. The member is OURS and WE WILL take care of them. Chaplain on Staff and CISD team available on a moments notice. T.c.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Ouch, you am right pal. My mistake.
    Code K here. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • admpaul
    replied
    Joined a dept on monday night tuesday morning double fatality, one other med flight out. Another accident; we had one of our young members killed in a mva by two semi's. 21yr old. We called another department to cut him out, this has been the only time i've seen a dept unable to do anything other than take our hats off as he was carted by. Only time i've seen ff's break down at a scene. Kids are the hardest and at acciedents we just need to man up get the job done and if you need to talk about it do it later or in church.

    Leave a comment:


  • IronValor
    replied
    The first trauma I ever worked was a GSW to the head and its sorta went down hill from there through the years. I was taught early not to put Myself in somebody elses boots because Youll walk through enough **** in your own lifetime. You have to remember that its not YOUR Problem. All you can do is help the pts the best you can and if you have done your best then go home proud because there is nothing to be ashamed of. If its something thats sticking with you then by all means talk to a trusted brother. Always leave your job at your job and if all else fails there is always passive aggressive wood working and enough Jameson to drown a F***in elephant! Its like taking a mini vacation and never leaving the house!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonnee
    replied
    Originally posted by TenEight View Post
    F for fatality, sorry.


    I have a strict "no talking to the wife about bad calls" policy - what about everyone else? Do you unload on your wife or keep it from her?

    If I didn't have the wife I have, I may not have gotten through a lot of hard times while on the job. She has been a great listener and supporter during some pretty hard times.

    You never want to surpress anything. It is better to get it out than to keep it bottled up inside.

    Leave a comment:

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