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  • #31
    Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
    That will all depend on how they speced the gear. My full PBI set of MP retailed at $2100 the way I speced it.



    You specified your own gear? Did you sole purchased it or did the FD you are with.

    I always wore what the department specified and purchased. They would order anywhere from 100 to 250 sets at one time for stock. If a complete change out was made then they would order a minimum of 650 to 700 complete sets.

    When you are buying sets in the quantity we were and or are buying, you get a better price and better garment.


    The best way to compare garments and makers of TOG is to have the sales people bring in the garment that they will be proposing in the bid for research and comparison. We also had sets of TOG for wear and evaluations. We never bought from the shelf.


    After careful evaluations and field tests, then the proposals went out and the best man won the bid and contract. It didn't matter on low bid, but several other factors. played in the final decisions.


    Bid price, material, time of shipment, where garments are made and assembled, plus other factors.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
      Maybe you had better luck with Janesville than I did, but since replacing my Janesville with Globe it has been night and day difference. IMHO, Globe is far and away the better gear.
      I agree globe is lighter and offer more movement. What I did not like about Globe they use a sizing set and not physically measure you like other TO gear companies do.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by IronsMan53 View Post
        You should be getting PBI in that price range. I wouldn't expect to pay over $1500-$1550 a set for Advance with E89/Crosstech. Tell them they can do better.
        In 2008 when I speced out Janesville gear with pbi it was 2000.00. I'm only 100 over your price range. I'm only using the price from one quote have not got the others back yet.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by IronsMan53 View Post
          That's funny. Veridian finished last in our wear test.

          The most common complaint mentioned was the stiffness and bulkiness of the collar. It was even mentioned by one of our field testers during a live burn that he could not raise his head to look up while crawling due to the collar being either bunched up or pulled down on his neck. We ensured that he was wearing his SCBA properly and his hood wasn't bunched up in the collar. I think it is the design of the gear. I currently wear Veridian and I have found that after wearing the coat for a while my neck will get sore and I feel a lot of weight at the base of my neck directly between the shoulder blades. It feels as if the coat collar is pulling my neck forward. This is both with and without an SCBA so it has to be the coat. None of the other gear tested and none of the other gear I have ever worn has done this.

          BTW, our wear test was quite extensive and included all of the other manufacturers you mentioned.
          Whew! So it's not just me---man it's like having cardboard back there!
          "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

          --Thornton Wilder

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by IronsMan53 View Post
            SM was bought out by Tencate.

            The stuff out of Canada is made by Difco. They offer relatively the same products as Southern Mills and Safety Composites. One of the manufacturers that uses their fabrics is Fire-Dex. I know Morning Pride offers products from all three, Globe is largely Southern Mills, and Lion is largely Safety Composites.

            One of Difco's E89 products, XE289, offers really impressive THL results.
            Stedair is also a Canadian company, Stedair 3000 and 4000 moisture barriers. Perform comparable to Gore (RT7100 Crosstech) but at significantly lower cost AND have a 3yr warranty (gets you to 1st required test).

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by admpaul View Post
              I agree globe is lighter and offer more movement. What I did not like about Globe they use a sizing set and not physically measure you like other TO gear companies do.
              Light is combination of materials. Comparing old this (been washed many times) to new that is silly/

              You have that azz backwards. Then the Globe guy is properly FITTING with gear. Much more reliable than just measuring you. How does it FEEL when you have their gear (coat) on? Then how long should the sleeves be. Measure to figure out approx size then try on coats.

              A tape measure is just a scale of inches. Every FF has a different combination of body parts shape and sizes. You have meathead weightlifter guy, stringbean BB guy and Beergut/std chest guy Measure all 3 FF with a tape at 44" chest and one will like the fit of a 42" coat one will like the 44 and one will like 46" (then cut for the beergut. (Then throw in throw in a firechick 42"). You don't try variety of coats and the will never know what FEEL right to them.

              In your spec you should REQUIRE use of sizing gear at least for coats.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by admpaul View Post
                In 2008 when I speced out Janesville gear with pbi it was 2000.00. I'm only 100 over your price range. I'm only using the price from one quote have not got the others back yet.
                The same list of items included in your post (minus the american flag) plus a kevlar belt (class 1 harness in the case of MP). Materials were PBI/Crosstech 2C/Caldura SL2. The price was a smidge over $1700 a set for the top three manufacturers. (all were within $25 of each other)

                All of this was done with existing contracts. We were looking to piggyback existing orders so that we would not have to go through an extended bid process (and so that we won't be forced into a low-bid situation).

                You're being quoted $1650 a set with Advance. We're paying $50 more a set and getting PBI and a kevlar belt off of existing contracts. That is why I told you that they can do better.
                Last edited by IronsMan53; 02-22-2011, 12:20 PM.
                I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

                One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
                "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
                -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by fireinfo10 View Post
                  Light is combination of materials. Comparing old this (been washed many times) to new that is silly/

                  You have that azz backwards. Then the Globe guy is properly FITTING with gear. Much more reliable than just measuring you. How does it FEEL when you have their gear (coat) on? Then how long should the sleeves be. Measure to figure out approx size then try on coats.

                  A tape measure is just a scale of inches. Every FF has a different combination of body parts shape and sizes. You have meathead weightlifter guy, stringbean BB guy and Beergut/std chest guy Measure all 3 FF with a tape at 44" chest and one will like the fit of a 42" coat one will like the 44 and one will like 46" (then cut for the beergut. (Then throw in throw in a firechick 42"). You don't try variety of coats and the will never know what FEEL right to them.

                  In your spec you should REQUIRE use of sizing gear at least for coats.
                  You clearly don't understand, at least with MP, why they take measurements instead of just using "sizing gear".

                  Sizing gear is generic in nature. Therefore, you'll see a limit in what "adjustments" can be made. Typically, the only real adjustment for a coat other than changing the overall coat size would probably be sleeve length.

                  MP for example takes various measurements and adjusts the entire coat based on those measurements. From what I've seen with other manufacturers, the length of the coat is typically fixed regardless of chest size. MP adjusts the length based on the person. A 5'8 person with a 46 chest will probably be shorter in the torso than a 6'2 person with a 46 chest. With a standard coat length, one or both may not have a good fit or proper coverage (too short or too long). Adjusting the coat length to the person takes care of this.

                  My first set of MP was made strictly off of measurements and fit perfectly.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by IronsMan53 View Post
                    The same list of items included in your post (minus the american flag) plus a kevlar belt (class 1 harness in the case of MP). Materials were PBI/Crosstech 2C/Caldura SL2. The price was a smidge over $1700 a set for the top three manufacturers. (all were within $25 of each other)

                    All of this was done with existing contracts. We were looking to piggyback existing orders so that we would not have to go through an extended bid process (and so that we won't be forced into a low-bid situation).

                    You're being quoted $1650 a set with Advance. We're paying $50 more a set and getting PBI and a kevlar belt off of existing contracts. That is why I told you that they can do better.
                    How many sets were you getting? I am looking at 30.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by FireMedic049 View Post
                      You clearly don't understand, at least with MP, why they take measurements instead of just using "sizing gear".

                      Sizing gear is generic in nature. Therefore, you'll see a limit in what "adjustments" can be made. Typically, the only real adjustment for a coat other than changing the overall coat size would probably be sleeve length.

                      MP for example takes various measurements and adjusts the entire coat based on those measurements. From what I've seen with other manufacturers, the length of the coat is typically fixed regardless of chest size. MP adjusts the length based on the person. A 5'8 person with a 46 chest will probably be shorter in the torso than a 6'2 person with a 46 chest. With a standard coat length, one or both may not have a good fit or proper coverage (too short or too long). Adjusting the coat length to the person takes care of this.

                      My first set of MP was made strictly off of measurements and fit perfectly.
                      I've had a couple sets of Globe using the Sizing sets. As long as your dealer uses the sizing sets CORRECTLY you will get gear that fits......PERFECTLY! We beta tested a couple sets of MP,NOT having GOOD luck with it. Suspenders break(often),the guys wearing it want their Globe stuff back. Others will probably be happy with it. My two cents,try to beta test product that you are interested in,hang it on your ACTIVE staff anf do REAL comparisons. BUY what works for YOUR agency. T.C.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                        You specified your own gear? Did you sole purchased it or did the FD you are with.
                        Yes. I am the training officer with my volunteer department, and before the set I received in 2010 our last Morning Pride order was 2003. We had Innotex in between. So we didn't really have a "spec" per say to go off of.

                        Being as this gear was being built with me being a live fire instructor in mind, I got to have fun with it. Besides the full PBI, I added extended dead air panels, the kevlar belt, changed the DRD closure and a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head. It is basically the Morning Pride "FDNY" spec with a few changes. It was the only set ordered at that time. The Innotex I had at the time was in good shape and went to another FF who was in need of gear. So we pretty much killed two birds with one stone, for half the price.

                        I have said this once and I will stick by it and say it again: I would rather pay a little more and get the little things that MP gives than save money and not be satisfied. Obviously we all have our preferences. That is mine.
                        Career Firefighter
                        Volunteer Captain

                        -Professional in Either Role-

                        Originally posted by Rescue101
                        I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by admpaul View Post
                          How many sets were you getting? I am looking at 30.
                          The first order was for 39 sets. Realistically we will be ordering 75-100 sets a year. Yes, we are a fairly large department 500+ but the point that I was making is that the contracts are out there. We are piggybacking off of one.

                          See if they are willing to open up something for you to piggyback off of and reap the benefits of a larger department. If the dealer doesn't know of any (or pretends not to) get the regional rep involved. If the contracted gear is not exactly what you want many dealers/manufacturers are willing to allow changes from their options list at a certain discount from list (usually in the 47-53% range). It may save you some money in the long run. Even $100 a set on 30 sets is $3000. I'm sure you could use that $$$ somewhere else.
                          I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

                          One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
                          "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
                          -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
                            I've had a couple sets of Globe using the Sizing sets. As long as your dealer uses the sizing sets CORRECTLY you will get gear that fits......PERFECTLY!
                            I think you may be missing my point.

                            Since you mentioned Globe specifically and I'm familiar with their product, I'll use them to re-explain. To the best of my knowledge, their coats in each model line and size are all built the same. The only 2 real adjustments available on their coats are chest size (bigger or smaller coat) and sleeve length. As such, a taller than average person could end up with not enough overlap with the pants, while a shorter than average person could end up with too much overlap even though both have the same chest size. In order to address this problem, the tall person might be able to get "additional" length by increasing the overall coat size, but then that could make it not fit good elsewhere. The short person may be in the same boat or have to pay extra to have the coat shortened.

                            MP takes a different approach and adjusts the actual cut of their product to more closely match the individual and provide a more "tailored" fit without charging extra.

                            The poster I was responding to was essentially talking about "buying off the rack" and picking what you think fits the best. That may work well enough for some people, but maybe not as well as a more custom fit approach.

                            We beta tested a couple sets of MP,NOT having GOOD luck with it. Suspenders break(often),the guys wearing it want their Globe stuff back. Others will probably be happy with it.
                            What part keeps breaking? We've been in MP for 5 years and not having much of a problem with our suspenders and definitely not more than what we've seen with other manufacturers products.

                            My two cents,try to beta test product that you are interested in,hang it on your ACTIVE staff anf do REAL comparisons. BUY what works for YOUR agency. T.C.
                            We did do some testing prior to the switch to MP.

                            Overall, I'd say we're very happy with ours. Haven't heard any complaints like with the brand just before we got the MP. Round 2 is on order as we speak.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by FireMedic049 View Post
                              I think you may be missing my point.

                              Since you mentioned Globe specifically and I'm familiar with their product, I'll use them to re-explain. To the best of my knowledge, their coats in each model line and size are all built the same. The only 2 real adjustments available on their coats are chest size (bigger or smaller coat) and sleeve length. As such, a taller than average person could end up with not enough overlap with the pants, while a shorter than average person could end up with too much overlap even though both have the same chest size. In order to address this problem, the tall person might be able to get "additional" length by increasing the overall coat size, but then that could make it not fit good elsewhere. The short person may be in the same boat or have to pay extra to have the coat shortened.
                              Actually, you are wrong. Globe offers three different length coats.

                              Just admit that other manufacturers are able to fit people in gear appropriate for them and move on.
                              I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

                              One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
                              "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
                              -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by IronsMan53 View Post
                                Actually, you are wrong. Globe offers three different length coats.
                                OK, I was wrong about Globe, but may still be correct regarding other manufacturers.

                                Just admit that other manufacturers are able to fit people in gear appropriate for them and move on.
                                I'm not disputing that, so there's really no need to admit anything. I was actually addressing the assertion that "sizing gear" is a must have in the fitting process and was also explaining that MP takes a different approach in order to provide a more "tailored" fit.

                                Comment

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