Who on here has it or is looking into it, what do you think about the idea or for that fact your department/state commission... how does your state or department rate your FF's we have a 150 and 400 here in Kentucky
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Originally posted by ...... View PostWho on here has it or is looking into it, what do you think about the idea or for that fact your department/state commission... how does your state or department rate your FF's we have a 150 and 400 here in Kentucky
Wisconsin is an IFSAC state when it comes to firefighter certification. I hold 4 IFSAC certs from when I worked for the military as a CFR firefighter. I see no disadvantage to IFSAC certification and only advantages, if it leads to a national certification process.Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate
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Originally posted by FyredUp View PostLet me be the first to say....HUH? I don't have a clue what the heck you are even asking.
Wisconsin is an IFSAC state when it comes to firefighter certification. I hold 4 IFSAC certs from when I worked for the military as a CFR firefighter. I see no disadvantage to IFSAC certification and only advantages, if it leads to a national certification process.
KY also approaches training different than most of the states that border us in the fact that the Fire Commission has developed a take the training to the firefighter approach in that there are training "regions" that go to the dept to train rather than require the firefighter to go to a centralized academy. Training props such as Firefighter rescue and survival and flashover simulators can be taken to the dept.Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)
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The question was not well stated and leaves a lot to be desired.
The IFSAC Certificate Assembly provides accreditation to entities that certify the competency of and issue certificates to individuals who pass examinations based on the National Fire Protection Association fire service professional qualifications and other standards approved by the Assembly.
Certification, and to what level, varies from state to state. There are no disadvantages to IFSTC.
http://www.ifsac.org/HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL
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Let me add to a previous statement by Capt387. FF Level I and FF Level II .......
(I mean no disrespect nor do I want to start a career/vollie debate)
Level II is not just for career. I am level II and I am not career.
Next for those not in KY, it is not simply having 150/400 hours of training. You must have 150/400 hours of training across a wide variety of different subject. You could have 3000 hours of training but if you do not have the 3 hours of sprinkler training then you are not Level I.
As for IFSAC, it is a good notion but, as already said someone can get lucky. I think there should be more requirements than just IFSAC to be IFSAC I/II. There should be a certain number of years of experience. That might not work but there has to be something more than a multiple choice test and 5 practicals.
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Originally posted by FyredUp View Postif it leads to a national certification process.
Or you have meat heads who think they don't need to train in ground ladders because they have buildings over 1 story in height......Never mind the fact that they could get called to another jurisdiction in an extreme emergency."Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."
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Originally posted by FWDbuff View PostStealing Gonzo's thunder by saying BING-FREAKING-O!!!!!!! Thats the whole trick. IFSAC/Pro-Board were developed to try and come up with some sort of consensus.....Make sure everyone is trained to some sort of minimal standards. But you have some states (Like Florida....) who want to rule their own little empires.
Or you have meat heads who think they don't need to train in ground ladders because they have buildings over 1 story in height......Never mind the fact that they could get called to another jurisdiction in an extreme emergency.
You know why it will never happen? Because frankly, it makes far too much sense. It would create ONE single national curriculum for certification and too many little czars of fire training are unilling to give up that power they lord over their state's fire departments. I am not saying the individual states couldn't come up with an instate program instead of certification, but ALL certification would be based on that one national curriculum.Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate
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Originally posted by FyredUp View PostYep, imagine the horror if you could take FF1, FF2, Officer Certification, and Driver/Operator Certification in Wisconsin move to Washington, or California, or Maryland, or Massachusetts, or heaven forbid even Louisiana and say "HEY, I am already NATIONALLY CERTIFIED so I don't need to start over taking classes like a wet behind the ears rookie."
You know why it will never happen? Because frankly, it makes far too much sense. It would create ONE single national curriculum for certification and too many little czars of fire training are unilling to give up that power they lord over their state's fire departments. I am not saying the individual states couldn't come up with an instate program instead of certification, but ALL certification would be based on that one national curriculum.Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)
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Originally posted by BSFD9302 View PostThat might not work but there has to be something more than a multiple choice test and 5 practicals.
you said it.Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)
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Originally posted by Capt387 View PostIf you remeber they tried that many moons ago in the "Journeyman" type of a program.... Fell on its face. Thee are too many "versions" of curriculum now; IFSTA, DELMAR, NOSSI (I think I heard it as a form of Hazmat training recognized. Forgive the spelling). Too much criss crossing and not one of the first two teach it all. I had to do an admin and orginization class the other night in my VFD and had planned on using IFSTA as that is whats in the new computer at the station but had to resort to my Delmar information to use in my class.
In order for National cert program to work it needs to be set up similar to what most states run now. FF1, FF2, Officer, Driver/Operator, Inspector, Instructor and whatever else with a specific curriculum ofr each unit, with a specific minimum number of hoursfor each unit. It can work IF the fire service wants it bad enough and there lies the problem. Once again WE are our own worst enemy.Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate
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Add Michigan to the foolish states protecting their turf by refusing to join IFSAC/NPQ. They are exceedingly generous though, in that if you are already IFSAC certified they will allow you to challenge the test, so long as you are sponsored by a dept in the state AND are willing to cough up the fee. Last I checked, the fee was the same as the cost of the academy-somewhere in the $3K range.
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Yep, imagine the horror if you could take FF1, FF2, Officer Certification, and Driver/Operator Certification in Wisconsin move to Washington, or California, or Maryland, or Massachusetts, or heaven forbid even Louisiana and say "HEY, I am already NATIONALLY CERTIFIED so I don't need to start over taking classes like a wet behind the ears rookie."
My issues with IFSAC is that the videos and online classes are not to the current most up to date tactics, strategies and methods. An example is Aerial; many local areas assign the Truck Company to LOUVEEERS (Ladder, Overhaul, Utilities, Ventilation, Exposures/Elevated M.S., Extension, Extinguishment, Rescue/Extrication and Salvage) functions but that is not addressed in the curriculum. I honestly like that the CSFM (California State Fire Marshal) has higher standards, offer updated training and pull their information from represenatives that actually still work the job.
I'm not saying that having a training standard across the board is bad, but if we are going to do that then let's pool the experts together and form the minimum training standards based on their experience, knowledge and training. I laugh everytime I watch a DOD Pumper Training and see Air Force guys going interior with Proximity Suits on. I know they do that, but who in the municipal side or non DOD side does that? That's just one small example of what I'm talking about..... I could go on, but my fingers are tired...... LOL."Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"
Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....
Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....
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Originally posted by mikeyboy View PostI laugh everytime I watch a DOD Pumper Training and see Air Force guys going interior with Proximity Suits on. I know they do that, but who in the municipal side or non DOD side does that? That's just one small example of what I'm talking about..... I could go on, but my fingers are tired...... LOL.
Sorry, went off topic-pet peeve of mine.
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Originally posted by mikeyboy View PostActually, California is not a state that recognizes IFSAC, at least not currently. I have heard rumors that it's going to happen but highly doubt it since the State likes their cert. money.
My issues with IFSAC is that the videos and online classes are not to the current most up to date tactics, strategies and methods. An example is Aerial; many local areas assign the Truck Company to LOUVEEERS (Ladder, Overhaul, Utilities, Ventilation, Exposures/Elevated M.S., Extension, Extinguishment, Rescue/Extrication and Salvage) functions but that is not addressed in the curriculum. I honestly like that the CSFM (California State Fire Marshal) has higher standards, offer updated training and pull their information from represenatives that actually still work the job.
I'm not saying that having a training standard across the board is bad, but if we are going to do that then let's pool the experts together and form the minimum training standards based on their experience, knowledge and training. I laugh everytime I watch a DOD Pumper Training and see Air Force guys going interior with Proximity Suits on. I know they do that, but who in the municipal side or non DOD side does that? That's just one small example of what I'm talking about..... I could go on, but my fingers are tired...... LOL.
You are a prime example of why this type of system will never occur. Immediately you chose to point out the failings of the idea instead of stating there will be obvious kinks to work out. IF a national consensus standard was was approved all training materials would have to adhere to that standard. My guess is that they wouldn't apply out of date training and equipment to a brand new standard.
As far as LOUVEEERS goes there are hundred of acronymns for different sets of tactics. Honestly I have never heard that particular one used before.
As far as the DOD goes, it is what it is. The military and the federal government are exempt and exceptioned from so many rules and laws that it is simply ludicrous. I used to be a civilian CFR firefighter on a WiANG base and we went through 3 or 4 different ensembles when I was there. My Favorite dual prupose stuf was the structural gear with the removable silver out garment. When you were assigned crash you wore the silver outer over your structural gear, when assigned structural you took the silvers off. I found it even funnier that our firefighting boots specifically said on them "NOT FOR CFR FIREFIGHTING!"Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate
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Originally posted by FyredUp View PostAs far as LOUVEEERS goes there are hundred of acronymns for different sets of tactics. Honestly I have never heard that particular one used before."Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."
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