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  • rrlyons
    replied
    FiremanLyman
    The o-rings are good and there is no water or even any moisture inside where the batteries go. as for the moisture in the control module I don't think there has been any in there or @ least when our service tech has replaced them he has not said anything about it.

    On the pack that came on (pass alerted in the station) we were called to mutual aid to a structure fire with a neighboring Dept. I and another F.F.
    packed up to make entry
    when he put the pack on the batteries were dead. as this was the only 2 packs we had @ the time as we were in the fast attack truck ( pumper had not arrived yet with the other packs) this pack had been checked a few days earlier and was fine. I went to the station the next ,morning and replaced the batteries in it. turned it on and off twice and everything worked ok. then put it back in service. about 2 hours later ( while still @ station)
    I heard a pass going off (and I know it was off before I put it way) it was this same pack. I was able to push the side button and shut it off (and the bottle was off no air to it) when I went to put it back in truck as soon as I snapped it into the rack the pack it turned back on. I then turned it back off. then turned the air on and off a couple times and it worked fine. put it back in then checked it a couple 3 days later still ok. about a week after this we were checking packs again and this one had dead batteries. when we replaced them it had a error on the icm (COMM ER) and it went in for repair.

    all our packs that have had errors have said the above on the read out.
    the ICM that the packs came with have a black dial to read tank pressure on them and the ones that have been replaced are white now. don't know if that tells you anything or not.
    I guess we will just have to see if things get better as they get replaced.
    hope so. I just have a hard time spending all the $$$$$$$$ for the price of these packs (not just MSA) and having this kind of issue with them.
    I will be asking our service man if there has been any sign of moisture in the
    control modules

    I want to thank you for taking the time today to do some researching into our problem for us

    Once again THANKS for your time

    Leave a comment:


  • FiremanLyman
    replied
    RRLYONS-

    The M7 Control Module 7-2183-1 is avalible with several options (thermal sensor, Quick Fill, and Radio Transmitter). Either way they should act the same way.

    Few trouble shooting ideas. The battery plate, insure that the O-ring is intact iside the plate, water build up would be bad. Also you can have a trained service person remove the control module from the high pressure line and check for corrosion (could indicate moisture in the pack, bottle or fill station).

    The reccomended batteries are Duracell MN1500 or Energizer E91. MSA warns other batteries can effect perfomance and viod safety approval.

    The Error messages, on the ICM TxR they give a code. Without a code number, the only option is to replace and send back to manufactuer. The Error message should come up when the pack is charged, but will not turn off unless batteries are removed. This could have been the problem with them going off on their own (phantom), when checked the user did not note the error message and put the pack back up, since the pack does not turn off completely in Error, then the alarm later sounded.

    Hope it is as simple as the batteries or cover. Anything else needs looked at by a tech.

    Leave a comment:


  • backsteprescue
    replied
    Our MSA Firehawks seem to be working pretty well for us. No battery problems here, we change them twice a year or when needed. We have had some problems with the Heads Up Displays coming off the masks. Mine came off as I fell through a floor and the mask got ripped off my face but some guys have either just broken off or fallen off. I never used the thing anyway, if I need to check my pressure I just look at the gauge so when I told the Chief that it was no longer on my mask I told him to save the money rather than replace it.

    Leave a comment:


  • rrlyons
    replied
    FiremanLyman thanks for looking into this the model #'s on all 12 of our packs is
    7-2183-1 (hope this is the # you are wanting)
    Like I said above we have no complaints with our salesman or any service we have been getting on the ones that have had error on the digital read outs
    but this battery issue seams alittle extreme. I'm sure our salesman is getting
    or @ least should be getting something from MSA if there is any possible issues with there packs.

    Look @ Toyota I know some car manufactures have recalls and some minor issues that they don't recall but if a vehicle comes in with this trouble it is covered but they don't issue a mandatory recall as long as its still in the warranty period. On something like this (air Packs) I would hope to think that a manufacture would not operate like this when lives depend on them.

    Leave a comment:


  • FiremanLyman
    replied
    RRLYONS, I will be at work tomorrow and am an MSA CARE repair tech. Send me the model number on the ICM and I'll look through the MSA publications.

    Leave a comment:


  • rrlyons
    replied
    As some of the comments about them maybe getting bumped while in the truck and coming on. these units will only come on once you turn on the air valve. we dont have any turn off for the hud (ours is only led no voice amplifiers ) once you turn off the air bottle then bleed the pressure from the regulator and push the button on the side of the pass twice we get beeps then read out says off and hud lights blink and go out.
    I also agree we used to have scott and some survive air packs. just plane old AIR PACKS (turn them on /strap them on your back/and go) and hopefully you remember to turn your pass on before you entered.

    And sure even if they happen to be dead or dye out on you while in use they will still work fine (except for the pass alarm) which is the most important thing needed if and when S*** happens. the buddy breathing hook ups and or quick fill (rit) is great If you know where or can find a downed man

    it just makes me mad as H** that everyone is going to all this electronic crap (or being forced to have it) when it is not reliable. sure some things are great that they are coming out with (instant pass on when pak pressurizd)
    it sure seems not only on this site that there is some issues with these packs. we talked about maybe going back to the old clip on pass system for a back up ??? as we gave all our old ones along with the paks to a dept. on our county that was in need of upgadeing theres. kind of wish we had them back @ times.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catch22
    replied
    Originally posted by len1582 View Post
    Ask MSA what brand of battery they recommend.
    While it seems trivial, this can be a bigger issue than what you think. We were having problems with our Scott packs going through batteries like they were candy. We were even using one of the models that they recommended. After talking with one of the guys from Scott, we swapped to another one on their list and haven't had near the problems.

    I don't know how MSA packs work, but I do know there are several brands of packs where the PASS system doesn't totally shut down. They still use a small amount of energy for the system that detects the air pressure to activate the pass. It will go dormant, but never turns off.

    Leave a comment:


  • sklump
    replied
    I don't know for sure the age of our packs. We had battery isues and replaced the ICMs with upgraded ones cost was $300 this took care of alot of the problem. We were also having false alarms on the pass. Also I agree with the HUDS, of course none of this is warranty. Talk to you dealer because at the tiime the ICMs were negotiable.

    Leave a comment:


  • LFD2203
    replied
    First, let me say that we are Scott users, so I cannot speak specifically to the MSA issue.
    But doesn't it seem unsettling that we place so much faith in a 9v battery? I remember using the Scott 4.5 when it had nothing electroinc on it. Reliable as a boat anchor. Use it, wash it off with the 1 3/4" line before putting it back on the engine and it was going to be there and was going to work perfectly the next time you wanted it.

    The addition of the integrated PASS device is probably the most important improvement of the SCBA in my opinion. While this is an electronic device, it has been pretty simple and durable since inception. I'm as guilty as anyone of forgetting to turn on the PASS device when it was an added component. I like the fact that when the cylinder is turned on, so is the PASS.

    Once we went to the heads up display and whatever other battery powered stuff we have added, the reliability of our SCBA seems to have declined. You can't hose them off with the handline, and if the MMR happens to get the door slammed on it, it's gone. Battery issues seem to be the norm, regardless of how often you use the SCBA or who makes them.

    I just don't think that relying upon all of these electronic features is a good thing. Electricity and water just don't mix. I would rather trust the remote pressure gauge anyday over a heads up IF the addition of the heads up is going to be the equivalent of putting a pair of silk panties on the old reliable Scott.......

    Leave a comment:


  • GTRider245
    replied
    I have ZERO expirience with these packs, but how exactly would you be able to leave the PASS device on without it going off and letting everyone know?

    Leave a comment:


  • sapper937
    replied
    my department has been running msn firehawks for as long as i can remember and the only issue we have had as far as battieries is the (like was said above) people dont turn the mask off or dont turn the pass off. also check how they are mounted in the truck it could be as simple as the door hitting the pass device and setting it off

    hope this helps

    be good be safe

    Leave a comment:


  • firefightinirish217
    replied
    And that gentlemen is why Scott is numero uno.

    The department I'm now on has MSA's. All of the guys there wish we had Scott, but we make due with what we have.

    Leave a comment:


  • npfd801
    replied
    We have six year old MSA Firehawks. Batteries are a constant issue, but we just figure it's a price of doing business. We have had the best luck with Duracell Procells from the local Batteries Plus. They love us for the amount of batteries we buy, and we buy in case quantity which helps.

    My biggest beef with the MSA is the absolute POS mounting system for the HUDs. I'll bet I have two dozen broken HUDs that still function fine, but the plastic is broken at the mounting tab. Even the new version that uses two AA batteries instead of the AAA's with the supposedly "better" and beefier mounting area is not immune to breakage.

    We get a lot of the Error 88s on the packs as well. Amazing how many of our ICMs have had this issue as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • ffbobbyhill
    replied
    Msa

    RRlyons,

    Hey Brother. Well, my Vol. Dept also uses MSA. There are an older model. Mfg'ed, about 6-7 years ago. BUT, they were referbed last year and when that happened, they placed new Remote pressue gauges/PASS devices on the packs. They suck. The batteries are going dead all the time. I'm not a fan of the MSA's anyway. And this does not help thier cause any. So, in answer to your question...YES, others are having this issue.

    Stay Safe Brother.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weruj1
    replied
    we have not had any troubles .......we change our batteries when we are supposed to do them with the smoke detectors..........when the time changes.

    Leave a comment:

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