Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who's talking now?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    oh look, its one of these threads again.



    la, your choice in tactics is a hot topic because you take it to the extreme. Maybe lt mccormack has nothing for you, that does not make him any less respected to those he has helped (myself included). You tend to say "look, it doesnt happen here, thats just how it is and thats how we operate" but you do not afford the luxury to any other department. There are multiple (possibly a 99% majority) departments capable of providing both highly efficient extinguishment AND safe practices but it seems that because you are unable, you do not believe anyone else can. You know you stir the pot so why do you make such incendiary comments?

    you only further my suspicion you're under firehouse's pay roll to keep this forum alive



    its funny, i make a thread with legitmate questions and an opportunity for the self proclaimed gurus to prove their worth and help out and no one wants to be bothered furthering the service they are so quick to get a boner for la fire killing.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

    Comment


    • #62
      Yes, we will never agree.

      And your department sounds very squared away.

      But let's compare apples to apples.

      Your department is running one station and 4 pieces on 40K. My VFD is running 5 stations with a minimum of 5 attack engines, one backup engine two tankers and a couple of brush trucks on 90K. And we are still short of service trucks that will never come to be according to PIAL. Hardly apples to apples.

      And the scary part is there are other departments in that parish, as well as neighboring north LA parishes, that cover that much area on half, or less, of that 90K we are lucky to have.

      I also know of VFDs that cover twice the area, or more, on the same 90K

      How much area do you cover? My VFD cover about 110 miles. Apples to apples?

      You stand at a crossroad. You can either help raise your VFD up or you can help keep them down by enabling them never to realise there are ways to improve

      Which is what I do what I can when I can. I'd like to do more but since they have the same training night as my full-time gig I can't be there more than once a month as I need to be here most of the time. That's why I coordinated and managed the burn last weekend. That's why I'm spending the next 2 Tuesday nights prepping them for haz-mat ops testing. That's why I'm teaching a RIT class for the parish in April and why I have taught 2 other RIT classes and a class on reading smoke for the parish in the last 16 months. That's why I'm developing training and operational protocols. Any other questions about what I'm doing to help solve the problem?

      I don't necessarily disagree with this premise. What I disagree with is YOUR ACCEPTANCE THAT IT IS OKAY. Those departments should be embarassed by there lack of capability and they have an obligation to inform their citizenry that calling the FD does not guarantee interior work of any kind, EVER. Then they need to get off their butts, brainstorm solutions, instead of continuing the status quo and move forward to fulfill the true job of firefighter.

      The truth is in most of these places the citizens are very well aware of the departments limitations. And guess what? They live with it and simply don't want to pay any more to improve them, and this includes the folks that pay nothing towards fire protection because thier property falls under 75K of assessed value and are exempt from any property or fire taxes by state law. There is even talk of raising the exemption to 125K, which would absolutly kill the budgets of most rural VFDs in this state. They often chose to live where they live because of the low tax rate, and they understand that minimal fire, EMS and police services comes with the deal.

      It's easy for you to talk about solutions in a state where you seem to have free training, and state support. That isn't the case here, and looking at the propsed budget cuts for the coming year, fire training in the rural areas will probably be very little or nil.

      Solutions often require money. There ain't much. They require manpower. In most of these areas, there ain't much. And they require a strong state fire training system, which doesn't exist and is likely to become even weaker come June.


      FIX THE PROBLEM. Don't let it remain an issue.


      See above. There are folks in the rural areas allo ver the country doing what they can with what they have. Sometimes it can solve the problem. Sometimes it solves part of the problem. Sometimes it doesn't do squat.

      I do what I can with the time I have.
      Train to fight the fires you fight.

      Comment


      • #63
        This LAFE-bashing is getting so freaking old guys...everyone just agree to disagree and move on, PLEASE. And not just in this thread, all of them.

        I might not agree with some of the things he says either, but it's clear NO ONE is going to change their mind about this, so let's just move on to something more beneficial to everyone.
        Career Fire Captain
        Volunteer Chief Officer


        Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
          oh look, its one of these threads again.



          la, your choice in tactics is a hot topic because you take it to the extreme. Maybe lt mccormack has nothing for you, that does not make him any less respected to those he has helped (myself included). You tend to say "look, it doesnt happen here, thats just how it is and thats how we operate" but you do not afford the luxury to any other department. There are multiple (possibly a 99% majority) departments capable of providing both highly efficient extinguishment AND safe practices but it seems that because you are unable, you do not believe anyone else can. You know you stir the pot so why do you make such incendiary comments?

          you only further my suspicion you're under firehouse's pay roll to keep this forum alive



          its funny, i make a thread with legitmate questions and an opportunity for the self proclaimed gurus to prove their worth and help out and no one wants to be bothered furthering the service they are so quick to get a boner for la fire killing.
          I just clarified in my previous post that there are departments that can operate safely the majority of the time ans still be fairly safe. I think your 99% is way off the mark, but maybe you don't get out much. There are more than 1% of the departments in this state that can' attack a structural fire with an interior attack safely of the majority of the time. It's much higher than that.
          Train to fight the fires you fight.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
            I just clarified in my previous post that there are departments that can operate safely the majority of the time ans still be fairly safe. I think your 99% is way off the mark, but maybe you don't get out much. There are more than 1% of the departments in this state that can' attack a structural fire with an interior attack safely of the majority of the time. It's much higher than that.
            again, you can't comprehend what you read.

            nowhere did i state "attack a structural fire with an interior attack"

            i said provide both highly efficient extinguishment and a high level of safety. it's one of those times you disagree just to disagree. I'm over tearing you a new one, it was too easy to remain fun. The fact of the matter is:

            You want everyone to stop criticizing your department(s) because we fail to see how well it works inside your department.
            Thats fine, whatever floats your boat
            Yet, you refuse to believe its possible for us to do anything different from you.

            Our community supports our fire service, we do not have a shortage of highly committed, highly efficient, and very, VERY good volunteers. I have not had an opportunity to fight along side them but due to our great working relationship, I have trained and gone to class with them and I would never hesitate to go into the ****.

            Our officers are of the utmost quality. Our in-house training is top notch and our crews know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it well.

            These are all things our departments have to WORK for, it is not given.

            To complain you have a shortage of good volunteers is your problem. Your population would suggest an ACTIVE search would yield good results. To say you can't do it because of improper training would also be your problem......aren't you in charge of that sort thing?


            If you don't think your department can do your job efficiently, talk to your community about stepping up or about you guys stepping out and them finding some one else who can do the job.
            ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
              again, you can't comprehend what you read.

              nowhere did i state "attack a structural fire with an interior attack"

              i said provide both highly efficient extinguishment and a high level of safety. it's one of those times you disagree just to disagree. I'm over tearing you a new one, it was too easy to remain fun. The fact of the matter is:

              You want everyone to stop criticizing your department(s) because we fail to see how well it works inside your department.
              Thats fine, whatever floats your boat
              Yet, you refuse to believe its possible for us to do anything different from you.

              Our community supports our fire service, we do not have a shortage of highly committed, highly efficient, and very, VERY good volunteers. I have not had an opportunity to fight along side them but due to our great working relationship, I have trained and gone to class with them and I would never hesitate to go into the ****.

              Our officers are of the utmost quality. Our in-house training is top notch and our crews know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it well.

              These are all things our departments have to WORK for, it is not given.

              To complain you have a shortage of good volunteers is your problem. Your population would suggest an ACTIVE search would yield good results. To say you can't do it because of improper training would also be your problem......aren't you in charge of that sort thing?


              If you don't think your department can do your job efficiently, talk to your community about stepping up or about you guys stepping out and them finding some one else who can do the job.
              I have no idea what your community is like. I have no idea where you are from, and nowhere did I comment on your community.

              I did comment on hundreds of small VFDs around this state that have inadequate manpower, inadequate funding, inadequate training and inadequate community support. Honestly, based on my travels through south LA, and conversations with hudreds of firefighters fron the south end of the state, that's not the case the majority of the time in that part of the world. However in central and north LA, it is the case the majority of the time. And based on my travels is east TX, as well as my conversations with hudreds of east TX fireman at TEEX fire schools, it's a major issue over there as well.

              You may not be experiencing it, but it's out there. And it's all over the country.

              By the way, my volunteer department covers less than 600 people over 120 square miles. Not all that much to draw on, especially since the bulk of them are elderly.
              Train to fight the fires you fight.

              Comment


              • #67
                ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  I have no idea what your community is like. I have no idea where you are from, and nowhere did I comment on your community.
                  I'm from any other town besides yours.

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  I did comment on hundreds of small VFDs around this state that have inadequate manpower, inadequate funding, inadequate training and inadequate community support. Honestly, based on my travels through south LA, and conversations with hudreds of firefighters fron the south end of the state, that's not the case the majority of the time in that part of the world. However in central and north LA, it is the case the majority of the time. And based on my travels is east TX, as well as my conversations with hudreds of east TX fireman at TEEX fire schools, it's a major issue over there as well.
                  Funny, I get the exact opposite working at the biggest training facility in the state

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  You may not be experiencing it, but it's out there. And it's all over the country.
                  cool. Let them all know training is free here for instate departments.

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  By the way, my volunteer department covers less than 600 people over 120 square miles. Not all that much to draw on, especially since the bulk of them are elderly.
                  Then you should have no problems with the manpower you have.
                  Lets see, 600 people, I think over half are chiefs there, and 2 firefighters? yeah. That'll work.

                  All joking aside, you still don't see my point. You have to get out there and find them. If you needed some one to cut your lawn, do you just let it grow till it takes over your house or do you actively find some one?

                  Exactly.
                  ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
                    you only further my suspicion you're under firehouse's pay roll to keep this forum alive
                    And what exactly is your motive, just to antagonize and help him out?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
                      And what exactly is your motive, just to antagonize and help him out?
                      no, to make you butthurt enough that you HAVE to say something, even if its as meaningless as this.


                      so, mission accomplished i guess.
                      ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        cool. Let them all know training is free here for instate departments

                        Really?

                        With all due respect, I see how much it costs to send personnel to some of those classes. Sure the haz-amt Awareness and Ops classes are free, and so is the NFA stuff, but there isn't much else in Baton Rouge that a small rural VFD can afford, especially once you factor in hotel and food costs for the week.

                        That's why we only send our members down there for a very select number of classes, and we're pretty well funded.

                        Funny, I get the exact opposite working at the biggest training facility in the state


                        See above.

                        You tend to see the members from the well funded departments, especially from down south, or from the industrial side that can afford the classes at Baton Rouge.

                        With all due respect, that does not represent the majority of the LA fire service. Take a trip through the parishes in the central (excluding the Haynesville Shale departments) and northern parishes brother. it's a different world up here.

                        All joking aside, you still don't see my point. You have to get out there and find them. If you needed some one to cut your lawn, do you just let it grow till it takes over your house or do you actively find some one?


                        All joking aside, we are one of the better staffed VFDs for a community our size. Most of the VFDs around us are heavily stocked with juniors and support folks, but not many interior members. We are actually in good shape compared to many around us.

                        And yes, we recruit.

                        I have an idea. Let's bring this to an end unless you have something new to add to the discussion. I live in this area. You don't. And nothing personal dude, but I think I have a pretty good handle on what's happening in this area.

                        Something btells me it will come up agaain fairly soon and we can start the dance all over again.

                        Peace out.

                        By the way watch the news tonight. Shreveport is working a 3-alarm fire with fire district tanker support at an old battery plant. One hell of a good fire.
                        Last edited by LaFireEducator; 01-18-2011, 05:38 PM.
                        Train to fight the fires you fight.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                          cool. Let them all know training is free here for instate departments

                          Really?

                          With all due respect, I see how much it costs to send personnel to some of those classes. Sure the haz-amt Awareness and Ops classes are free, and so is the NFA stuff, but there isn't much else in Baton Rouge that a small rural VFD can afford, especially once you factor in hotel and food costs for the week.

                          That's why we only send our members down there for a very select number of classes, and we're pretty well funded.

                          Funny, I get the exact opposite working at the biggest training facility in the state


                          See above.

                          You tend to see the members from the well funded departments, especially from down south, or from the industrial side that can afford the classes at Baton Rouge.

                          With all due respect, that does not represent the majority of the LA fire service. Take a trip through the parishes in the central (excluding the Haynesville Shale departments) and northern parishes brother. it's a different world up here.

                          All joking aside, you still don't see my point. You have to get out there and find them. If you needed some one to cut your lawn, do you just let it grow till it takes over your house or do you actively find some one?


                          All joking aside, we are one of the better staffed VFDs for a community our size. Most of the VFDs around us are heavily stocked with juniors and support folks, but not many interior members. We are actually in good shape compared to many around us.

                          And yes, we recruit.
                          how do you garner "better staffed" after stating you have 6 officers and 2 firefighters? How can you NOT afford some type of physical test for 8 people? ****, send them to walgreens.
                          ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            And what exactly is your motive, just to antagonize and help him out?
                            I don't know, catch22, but I do find it comical la will call a Lt. from FDNY a crack pot because his department isn't capable of doing what FDNY can do. Yet post that those that can, are suicidal and unsafe when they do. You don't see the irony in that?
                            My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                            George Mason
                            Co-author of the Second Amendment
                            during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                            Elevator Rescue Information

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
                              how do you garner "better staffed" after stating you have 6 officers and 2 firefighters? How can you NOT afford some type of physical test for 8 people? ****, send them to walgreens.
                              WE had a few past members with good track records wander into the door in the past couple of weeks because of the house cleaning, so we are now up to 14 or so.

                              And yes, that is better staffed than most of the VFDs around us, especially since about 75% of our staff arte interior as compared to juniors and support.

                              Really don't want to get into the whole physicals discussion again.

                              Peace out.
                              Train to fight the fires you fight.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
                                I don't know, catch22, but I do find it comical la will call a Lt. from FDNY a crack pot because his department isn't capable of doing what FDNY can do. Yet post that those that can, are suicidal and unsafe when they do. You don't see the irony in that?
                                And the vast majority of the departments in the country will never have the capabilities of the FDNY, including some pretty good sized ones, so what's your point.

                                IMO Lt McCormack represents a point of view that simply isn't practical in a large chunk of the departments, especially volunteer department, in this country. IMO his words are dangerous in the rural volunteer fire service as they may drive members, in an effort to "be more like real firefighters" to attempt operations and interior attacks that thier manpower,experience, training, command structure, resources, apparatus and water supply are not able to support, which will put them in very unsafe positions.

                                By the way, I challenege you to find the word sucidal in any post. Any.

                                I did state that operations were unsafe when they were being carried out without proper training, experience, manpower, tools, apparatus, water supply or command structure.

                                I stated that there were many departments that had the above and could operate in a fairly safe manner much of the time.

                                And I did state that if a department did not have the above, they need to recognize and acknowledge that, and not operate interior as that would be unsafe except in limited situations. I also stated that in my mind is completly acceptable for a department with limited training, experience and resources to decide not tooperate interior at any time.

                                I stated that my VFD falls into the second catagory the majority of the time.
                                Train to fight the fires you fight.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X