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  • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Sure, but I think pigs growing wings would be a relevant analogy.
    no no no, see, I take your point then I find an asinine connection that is both irrelevant and pedantic and then I try and turn it against you to make you look wrong. You don't see how this works?
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
      no no no, see, I take your point then I find an asinine connection that is both irrelevant and pedantic and then I try and turn it against you to make you look wrong. You don't see how this works?
      Nah. Catch 'em and Q 'em. You wanna battle,fight with the twist off cap. Time for a break. T.C.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
        Nah. Catch 'em and Q 'em. You wanna battle,fight with the twist off cap. Time for a break. T.C.
        Oh heck ya... MmmmmMmmmm Bacon.
        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

        Comment


        • McCormack is so misunderstood.

          In the long run, it really doesn't matter how I feel about him.
          Train to fight the fires you fight.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
            Imagine if a major fire department opted to replace manpower with a robotic firefighting machine that could do the job safer and more efficient, without putting a human being in danger. I'm willing to bet the rank-and-file of that FD, the IAFF, and who knows who else would throw a fit while the military has done just that with drones, smart bombs, bunker-busting bombs, etc.
            I'm betting that wouldn't happen.

            Having lived around many neighbors who worked for a local defense contractor, the DoD embraces change with all the velocity passing seasons.
            Last edited by scfire86; 01-21-2011, 09:35 PM.
            They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

            I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
              Is there a lack of desire to consider new things, or is it a lack of funding, training, awareness? Probably a little bit of each.

              You can find examples where Department "A" is doing something out of date and backwards. No doubt, that will be the case. However, your point was that the fire service as a whole is not "progressive" and stuck in tradition. I maintain that is false.
              I think you're right, there's a little of both and a lot of it depends on the department. I know some that will not change for the sole reason that it's how they've always done it. I watched as a nearby department refused to change a thing after an LODD (a guy I knew personally) and were convinced that they were justified in not developing an accountability system, making guys use PASS devices, working in pairs, and some other issues.

              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
              Oh, I beg to differ... from all I've heard there is much grumbling and resistance to change. That's human nature. The fact that the order gets passed down doesn't mean it happens or that it happens the way the leadership wants. Just like your local fd.

              There are national guard units using 30 and 50 year old equipment... there are probably other examples where "the military" is not as progressive as you think.

              Fighting change is not always bad either. There are examples where the "new" and "progressive" change was wrong. Hi-pressure booster being one of those...

              Skepticism is a healthy reaction to the latest and greatest change.
              I'm sure there are those that don't like some of the changes, that's bound to happen. The bottom line is that in the military, you suck it up and go with it or you get out, one way or another. You're right on the NG thing, as well. With the cost of military equipment, how do you outfit the regular armed forces AND the NG?

              You're also right that not all new and progressive ideas are good, and you bring up a great example. But you also brought up several excellent examples of where new and progressive was also a very good thing.

              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
              Sure, but I think pigs growing wings would be a relevant analogy.
              Perhaps an extreme example and one that we likely won't see in the near future, but you see the point. But then again, 20 years ago I'd never have imagined a guy sitting in a chair in the US could fly a drone over Afghanistan, either.

              I'm willing to bet we probably agree on more points than disagree when it comes right down to it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
                no no no, see, I take your point then I find an asinine connection that is both irrelevant and pedantic and then I try and turn it against you to make you look wrong. You don't see how this works?
                Here's an idea: how about instead of smartass comments and repeating someone elses ideas and thoughts, you share with us your wealth of firefighting experience.

                Of course, based on what I've read in that regard, the majority of the people involved with this topic at the moment have more time on the firehouse crapper than you do on fire scenes.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  McCormack is so misunderstood.
                  Only by you and the other "sallies", Bobby....

                  In the long run, it really doesn't matter how I feel about him.
                  That's true.. nobody gives a fat rat's rump how you feel about him.
                  ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                  Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                  • I still want to know how to put out the fire behind the locked door...
                    Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.

                    Comment


                    • Use your forks of the halligan. Most interior doors will be susceptible to prying and it would allow you to use the asp as a hook and keep control of it. Much like a pike. I'm sure there are different ways and every situation is different but to "ram and bash" wouldn't allow you the same, if any, amount of control should the need to close it arise.
                      ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

                      Comment


                      • On that topic, the recruit academy and my career and volly department all hound on rookies to keep control of the door. It's a step that is mandatory in ff1 practicals and you'll suffer greatly if you try and bash the door in training or in the **** at my departments. Though some exterior doors it is deemed neccessary, we focus greatly on efficient and practical forcible entry.
                        ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
                          While you are correct, how long did it take to get full implementation of those things? Up until 4-5 years ago, we still had at least one fire department using 3/4 boots and long coats and many smaller departments emulating them.
                          And whats the point? What were their injury rates before bunkers? What were they after? Heat injury problems? How do the members feel about the change? Would the vast majority switch back if they could? What do you actually know about their particular situation other than just repeating over and over "bunkers are the best."
                          TIC's are great tools, but I've seen far too many departments that aren't using them to their capabilities or departments (Charleston and the SSS report comes to mind) that leave them on the truck. You know where I'm going with this, I'm sure.
                          And they can also be used as a crutch for departments that have forgotten or never knew good truck work. Whats your point?
                          Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.

                          Comment


                          • Be careful. He gets butthurt easily.
                            ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tajm611 View Post
                              Be careful. He gets butthurt easily.
                              Huh??????????? (Damn 10 characters)
                              Train to fight the fires you fight.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Whocares View Post
                                And whats the point? What were their injury rates before bunkers? What were they after? Heat injury problems? How do the members feel about the change? Would the vast majority switch back if they could? What do you actually know about their particular situation other than just repeating over and over "bunkers are the best."And they can also be used as a crutch for departments that have forgotten or never knew good truck work. Whats your point?
                                For the record...I'd bet if it weren't for the city loosing a lawsuit in the mid 1990s the FDNY would still have the old gear. There have been guys saved by it...however the question must be raised, would they have been in those environments to begin with, exposed to what quickly became an untennable atmosphere had they not been wearing the gear to begin with. How has the added gear contributed to stress injuries? There is good and bad...only the guiding factor for our change was legal in nature and not a thorough vetting and study of the options available.

                                Also it was supposedly investigated as one possible contributing factor in the falling death of one of our members climbing an aerial to the roof and the findings claimed there was no corelation between the two, I wouldn't be surprised if any possible conection was 86'ed by command staff with an adgenda or Legal who obviously doesn't want to explore the issue either.

                                FTM-PTB

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