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Is this stupid or what?!

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  • Is this stupid or what?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwPUmYlYACM

    No skills learned other than climbing a ladder and performing a leg lock, both of which can be taught in a more safe manner.

    It seems like it's mainly tradition and used to building confidence in the 6 or so people that are on the ground holding the ladder.

    What do you think?

    And...would you do it?

    It seems like an accident waiting to happen.
    Last edited by Engine5Rescue2; 01-16-2011, 03:31 PM. Reason: Added last line.

  • #2
    It's a team building exercise. Dalton did it when I went through the recruit academy and to my knowledge they still do it. It's safe as long as there are instructors standing by that are watching what is going on and making sure that the students are doing exactly as instructed. So no, not stupid. It builds confidence in not only the firefighter's abilities in climbing a ladder, but also their confidence in their fellow recruits. But anything larger than a 24-26 foot extention ladder is not safe, just my $0.02 worth.

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    • #3
      ah....OP, we operate on ladders in the fire service. whether its a 24, a 35 or a 100 ft stick, ect... did this make you queezy or something? I have the feeling some ladder confidence may be in order for you and I have the perfect solution!......


      THE ABOVE VIDEO


      Obviously the angle of the ladder will not be this steep in the real world, but this is not a fire scene, it's training. More than enough checks and balances seem to be on the ground to make the ladder secure. If you think that a ff going up that angle is dangerous, you sound like a nancy amateur to me. IT work is always available for you sally.

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      • #4
        Been there, done it. Yes, the chances of ever having to do it in the real world are pretty damn slim, but as a confidence tool, it can't be beat.
        Career Fire Captain
        Volunteer Chief Officer


        Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
          But anything larger than a 24-26 foot extention ladder is not safe, just my $0.02 worth.
          I could see doing it with a smaller ladder like that. However, the ladder used in the video is 45 feet. I will say that I have talked with a couple of Dallas firefighters and they have said that there has never been an incident with somebody falling.

          Sure, it's a team building/confidence exercise and heck, I'd be scared out of my pants to do it. But...if a good portion (if not majority) of other fire departments are not doing it and they are able to maintain a sense of confidence in other fellow firefighters...why do it?

          And yes, pipeman, I'd be scared to do it. I think anybody would be scared to climb a 45 foot extension ladder and a 90 degree angle with no harness.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
            but as a confidence tool, it can't be beat.
            I'd have to agree 100%.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Engine5Rescue2 View Post
              And yes, pipeman, I'd be scared to do it. I think anybody would be scared to climb a 45 foot extension ladder and a 90 degree angle with no harness.
              where do these people come from?

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              • #8
                Maybe saying "anybody" would be a stretch...maybe nervous at least. Having a sense of fear is important to survive in this field.

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                • #9
                  Church raise.

                  It's an exercise we conduct once a year with our 35' ladder for those rare occasions when it may be required, however, it is more of team building and officer-building exercise than a practical fireground operation.

                  It's along the same lines of some urban departments still requiring rookies completing a Pompier Ladder evolution as a confidence building exercise to graduate rookie school, even though many of them no longer carry the ladders on the apparatus.
                  Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                  • #10
                    This ladder raise came in handy when we used to assist the 1st Baptist Church change out light bulbs their main sanctuary, but other than that it not that useful. With that being said, I see no problems making your cadets perform this climb. It shows that they have guts and that they can trust their crew and officers to get the job done. If they want to be a ff bad enough then they will complete the climb or seek happiness elsewhere.
                    Stay Safe
                    Bull


                    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
                    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

                    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
                    -WINSTON CHURCHILL

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Engine5Rescue2 View Post
                      No skills learned other than climbing a ladder and performing a leg lock, both of which can be taught in a more safe manner.
                      It's called a "Church Raise" for a reason and it teaches key skills aside from the raise itself; chief among them is teamwork and confidence.

                      And...would you do it?
                      Did it in FFI class many moons ago. Back then we also carried each other out of windows and down ladders, too.

                      It seems like an accident waiting to happen.
                      A lot of what we do in this job is an accident waiting to happen. The point is to do it safely and not have one.
                      "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                      sigpic
                      The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                      • #12
                        When you are jumping a fence , do you aim for just an inch over it ? No you aim for as high as you can -- same with some of the old school training - train for "worst case" -the average will be a cinch.
                        ?

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                        • #13
                          Well...........

                          I'm waiting for the O.P. to meet Mr. Pompier's Ladder...........


                          Train for the worst case??..... Absolutely! I never took a Class in how to make the 4th floor Balcony of a Garden Apartment building by using a Roof ladder for a Pompier, but the one time in my career where it was the only option, 3 of us pulled it off.........
                          Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                          In memory of
                          Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                          Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                          IACOJ Budget Analyst

                          I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                          www.gdvfd18.com

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                          • #14
                            It is mandatory to do the church/auditorium climb at the Massachusetts Firefighting Academy Recruit class.
                            ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                            Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                            • #15
                              Lol at people expecting others to be scared of the same things as them even when rookies do it on the daily.
                              ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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