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  • #16
    If you can pull it off, go with four door chassis. Four people arriving on scene can do so much more than two.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JSMV72 View Post
      Thanks for all of the input. Looks like we have some thinking to do in order to decide what would be the most beneficial.


      Here are answers to some of the questions asked above.

      Our new pumper city truck is allowed to leave the city limits for rural and mutual aid calls. The farthest distance from our station that is located in the west central part of our district would be about ten miles
      Your ISO rating will be for 5 road miles from a station. Beyond that will stay a 10.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by LVFD301 View Post
        Your ISO rating will be for 5 road miles from a station. Beyond that will stay a 10.
        Not here. 9 at 7 miles and that is without trying to improve it. T.C.

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        • #19
          I should have mentioned, some states have mandated changes in ISO rating, such as Texas, some western states, and possibly Maine?

          Normally it is a 5 mile thing however.

          Dang woodchucks.

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          • #20
            ISO Slayer

            I commend you on trying to improve your ISO rating... You can go to our web site and download our free book on ISO.... We have numerous departments that have used our services and several that have lowered their rating on their own with the use of our book... We also provide free quotes....
            David
            ISO Slayer

            www.isoslayer.com

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JSMV72 View Post
              Thanks for all of the input. Looks like we have some thinking to do in order to decide what would be the most beneficial.


              Here are answers to some of the questions asked above.

              Our new pumper city truck is allowed to leave the city limits for rural and mutual aid calls. The farthest distance from our station that is located in the west central part of our district would be about ten miles. We cover about 94 sq miles. N.W. Iowa is rural farming area. The rural roads are gravel, but mostly straight in one mile increments, a bit hilly with some narrow drives. But most of the farmers today have huge equipment and have increased the size of their drive ways. Yes it would be nice to keep the cost of a second unit down. The way we have it spec right now it came in around 270K. That was a 1250/1500 with class A foam, 10 inch rear dump, two door commercial chassis, two cross lays, one 2.5 inch pre-connect.
              As above - your city rating will apply up to 5mi from the station. IF you show up with sufficient water.

              You have a capable pumper available to respond so what you need is additional water. Spend the $ on tanker capacity. 50% of IOS is water. Very few areas in NW Iowa would present a problem getting a big taker around give then equipment farmers run down the road. Might look at a Water Master vac tanker. Good value tanker capability. Can utilize all those streams and ponds. 4000gal IH7400 twinscrew no pump will run you around $215k. That will have an impact on your rural ISO rating. If you REALLY feel you need a discharge pump can add a 500gpm PTO for $23k or a 1250gpm midship for $35k. A few add ons and still will be under $270k.

              If you need a 2nd pumper on scene get if from mutual aid.

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              • #22
                I keep seeing it, and though it's minor, I wanted to clarify. For the rural water flow test it's 250 gpm for 2 hours (120 minutes). You have to start flowing within 5 minutes of arriving and sustain that flow, uninterupted, for 120 minutes. If you can bump up the flow (I believe withing 15 minutes) and sustain a higher flow (in 250 gpm increments), you can get rated for that flow.

                Auto-aid is a savior for this. If a department is auto-aid, they get counted as arriving at the same time you arrive for the test. If they're mutual aid, you must calculate travel time for them.

                There are some tricks to improving this, but the most important thing is to have a grasp of what everyone around you is capable of. While a 5,000 gallon tanker is nice, how long does it take to fill and dump? Those numbers can make you or break you.

                You can get the information from ISO to help calcuate the travel, fill, and dump times and what they're looking for. It's just a form that you fill out for each apparatus. As you do it, you might make sure everyone has a copy. If there's a group of you that can lower your rating, you can probably do the same with your neighbors.

                There's also a class 8B out there. As I remember, all it takes is an engine, 4,000 gallons of water on wheels, and four personnel responding to each fire.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
                  I keep seeing it, and though it's minor, I wanted to clarify. For the rural water flow test it's 250 gpm for 2 hours (120 minutes). You have to start flowing within 5 minutes of arriving and sustain that flow, uninterupted, for 120 minutes. If you can bump up the flow (I believe withing 15 minutes) and sustain a higher flow (in 250 gpm increments), you can get rated for that flow.

                  Auto-aid is a savior for this. If a department is auto-aid, they get counted as arriving at the same time you arrive for the test. If they're mutual aid, you must calculate travel time for them.

                  There are some tricks to improving this, but the most important thing is to have a grasp of what everyone around you is capable of. While a 5,000 gallon tanker is nice, how long does it take to fill and dump? Those numbers can make you or break you.



                  You can get the information from ISO to help calcuate the travel, fill, and dump times and what they're looking for. It's just a form that you fill out for each apparatus. As you do it, you might make sure everyone has a copy. If there's a group of you that can lower your rating, you can probably do the same with your neighbors.

                  There's also a class 8B out there. As I remember, all it takes is an engine, 4,000 gallons of water on wheels, and four personnel responding to each fire.
                  thanks catch,

                  Great information. Looks like we have some thinking to do. I understand the auto aid, I have tried at our County meetings to get this across to everyone, but them seem hesitant. I also know it would all of us in this area with the AFG Grant. As far as doing water shuttle our dept. and others in this area are pretty efficient at it. We all carry jet siphons we can use to set up mulitple drop tanks to aid in reducing dump times. Maybe this spring we need to do a trial run and see what we can do.

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                  • #24
                    One thing you might try with the automatic aid, with other fire districts, is to set up a trial period. Most of the fire departments in our area came up with every excuse possible not to commit to automatic aid. The excuses included 1) we're too rural and we rarely get to the house in time to put the fire out anyway. 2) we don't want to put the extra miles on our tankers. 3) We don't have the man power to send tankers, and the list went on and on. What I did was come up with a detail report on the answers to all the excuses. ( yes i was even kinda rude on the #1 excuse and said " then why are you a fire department if you not putting out house fires") Then I suggest that the county have a 1 yr "trial" period and if after one year of honestly trying to make it work they still didn't see a need for it then we would get rid of it for good. About 6 months into the trial year every department began to love auto aid and had a hard time figuring out how they ever did with out it. The fire chief really liked that fact that with in minutes of arriving at a house fire they had water just a couple minutes out. Plus the firefighters loved it because they could run more calls.

                    The hardest part for us was the dispatch center. They didn't want any part of it and weren't going to change their 911 computer system. However,I fixed that problem. I came up with a laminated sheet which listed every fire department. Then next to each name I listed all the other fire departments they wanted to use for automatic aid. So... problem solved as follows: a house fire call comes into dispatch, dispatcher looks on the sheet and pages out all the fire departments listed for that area.

                    Also remember that even if the tanker takes 30 to 45 minutes to get to scene, it will still count as credit for ISO. In the real world if you get to the scene and realize you don't need those tanker just cancel them. They still get credit for ISO.
                    Last edited by volfireman034; 01-18-2011, 10:20 PM. Reason: spelling

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JSMV72 View Post
                      thanks catch,

                      Great information. Looks like we have some thinking to do. I understand the auto aid, I have tried at our County meetings to get this across to everyone, but them seem hesitant. I also know it would all of us in this area with the AFG Grant. As far as doing water shuttle our dept. and others in this area are pretty efficient at it. We all carry jet siphons we can use to set up mulitple drop tanks to aid in reducing dump times. Maybe this spring we need to do a trial run and see what we can do.
                      If you're really serious, do some research. There's several articles and books out there about rural water supply, and the "Your Next ISO Rating" book on the ISO Slayer website someone posted earlier is a great resource. USFA also has a free online course that has some good material.

                      Also, don't count out grants and other alternatives. While it'd be great to be able to work the grants to get a fleet of CAFS engines and vacuum tankers, you can also get other things that'll help you. We had a water supply project that got awarded a couple of years ago that included 3000' of LDH for our two engines (about 1,000 on one and 2,000 on the other), the light-weight suction hose, barrel and low-level strainers, and TurboDrafts. While we may not be able to haul as much water as some departments, we can utilize some water sources we couldn't prior to getting the grant. If you don't think you can use LDH in the rural environment, drop me an email and I'll prove you wrong.

                      Up your direction, Stanley, IA has done some wonderous things with FEPP/FPP. One of their guys posts on here (NEIOWA) in the grants forum and is very knowledgable about the programs. Just a look at their website will give you an idea. At one time he was looking at using a slurry tank for a cistern, but I never heard whether he got it done or not.

                      If necessary, think outside of the box. See Stanley as a fine example. Seriously, who would have ever thought of getting surplus water bladders that'll hold thousands of gallons of water to use as water supply for a rural department?

                      I don't know where exactly you are in NW Iowa, but I'm sure there's some creeks, ponds, and maybe even some lakes. My dad's side of the family hails from Fonda, so I know there's a little more than hogs, corn, and beans. Maybe no much more, but a little. My wife still hates the "smell of money" from the last trip we made that way.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by volfireman034 View Post
                        One thing you might try with the automatic aid, with other fire districts, is to set up a trial period. Most of the fire departments in our area came up with every excuse possible not to commit to automatic aid. The excuses included 1) we're too rural and we rarely get to the house in time to put the fire out anyway. 2) we don't want to put the extra miles on our tankers. 3) We don't have the man power to send tankers, and the list went on and on. What I did was come up with a detail report on the answers to all the excuses. ( yes i was even kinda rude on the #1 excuse and said " then why are you a fire department if you not putting out house fires") Then I suggest that the county have a 1 yr "trial" period and if after one year of honestly trying to make it work they still didn't see a need for it then we would get rid of it for good. About 6 months into the trial year every department began to love auto aid and had a hard time figuring out how they ever did with out it. The fire chief really liked that fact that with in minutes of arriving at a house fire they had water just a couple minutes out. Plus the firefighters loved it because they could run more calls.

                        The hardest part for us was the dispatch center. They didn't want any part of it and weren't going to change their 911 computer system. However,I fixed that problem. I came up with a laminated sheet which listed every fire department. Then next to each name I listed all the other fire departments they wanted to use for automatic aid. So... problem solved as follows: a house fire call comes into dispatch, dispatcher looks on the sheet and pages out all the fire departments listed for that area.

                        Also remember that even if the tanker takes 30 to 45 minutes to get to scene, it will still count as credit for ISO. In the real world if you get to the scene and realize you don't need those tanker just cancel them. They still get credit for ISO.
                        Good food for thought. Our comm center is more than willing to work with us on paging it's the departments. The biggest thing I have heard is that we do not want to respond to every call if they are not needed. We suggested setting it up for rural structure fires only and most still seemed not interested. The funny part is if we request them before we leave the station when we know it is a working fire they come running ready to play.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Your next logical step, after getting your ISO 9 is to go for the 8B, that requires
                          200gpm for 20 min. about 4400gal with hose loss. One Eng. and a 4000gal tender
                          will get you there.

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                          • #28
                            ISO class 8B is only recognizes in certain areas. Here is Arkansas it is not wish it was our department and most other would be there all ready.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by volfireman034 View Post
                              ISO class 8B is only recognizes in certain areas. Here is Arkansas it is not wish it was our department and most other would be there all ready.
                              You may want to re-check that. We just helped two departments get rated as 8b in northern AR.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thanks for the heads LVFD301 we checked on it several years ago so it may have changes since. Which departments did you help. I would like to contact them for details. or you can email it to me
                                Last edited by volfireman034; 01-20-2011, 01:45 PM. Reason: added comment

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