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Looking for 3M Fire Fighting Foam - Help?

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  • Looking for 3M Fire Fighting Foam - Help?

    Hi all,

    I'm a scientist, not a firefighter, but I thought I'd post to see if someone who reads this forum can help me. My organization deals with historically contaminated sites, and we are conducting a laboratory study of fire fighting foams (a.k.a. aqueous film-forming foams, or AFFFs).

    As some of you may know, the major historical producer of AFFFs was the 3M company. However, they stopped producing AFFFs around 2000, due to health concerns regarding the presence of two chemicals, PFOS and PFOA, in the mixtures.

    In our research, we are analyzing new and old AFFFs to see what chemicals they contain, so we can better anticipate what types of chemicals will be present at AFFF-contaminated sites.

    Here's our problem: We can obtain stock of the current-use AFFFs, but we have not been able to track down any of the old 3M stock. This is product that hasn't been produced for about a decade, and most have replaced their old stock with the more environmentally friendly products. It is likely, however, that there are pails or large containers of the old stock out there. We only need a small amount to do our analysis.

    The product goes by a few names, but is usually referred to as:

    "3M AFFF" or "3M Light Water"



    If anyone has some of this stock, or can point me in the right direction, please let me know by replying or sending me a PM. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for your attention.

  • #2
    Originally posted by fluorine View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm a scientist, not a firefighter, but I thought I'd post to see if someone who reads this forum can help me. My organization deals with historically contaminated sites, and we are conducting a laboratory study of fire fighting foams (a.k.a. aqueous film-forming foams, or AFFFs).

    As some of you may know, the major historical producer of AFFFs was the 3M company. However, they stopped producing AFFFs around 2000, due to health concerns regarding the presence of two chemicals, PFOS and PFOA, in the mixtures.

    In our research, we are analyzing new and old AFFFs to see what chemicals they contain, so we can better anticipate what types of chemicals will be present at AFFF-contaminated sites.

    Here's our problem: We can obtain stock of the current-use AFFFs, but we have not been able to track down any of the old 3M stock. This is product that hasn't been produced for about a decade, and most have replaced their old stock with the more environmentally friendly products. It is likely, however, that there are pails or large containers of the old stock out there. We only need a small amount to do our analysis.

    The product goes by a few names, but is usually referred to as:

    "3M AFFF" or "3M Light Water"



    If anyone has some of this stock, or can point me in the right direction, please let me know by replying or sending me a PM. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for your attention.


    A Google search would be the best route.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
      A Google search would be the best route.
      Did you even comprehend his post?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DarkStarr View Post
        Did you even comprehend his post?
        Sure.

        And it's entirely possible that some small fire department somewhere that doesn't run a lot of flammable liquid fires still has a five gallon can or three of Light Water sitting in a back room.

        I doubt you'd find it on E-Bay.
        Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

        Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Its a bit far for shipping, but I know a few stations down here that have a couple of 20L drums gathering dust. You might be able to get our HAZMAT section to send you a sample if you ask nicely

          http://www.fire.nsw.gov.au

          New South Wales, Australia

          Comment


          • #6
            Got a Navy base near you?

            Ask them. Write it in stone, they have it.
            Co 11
            Virginia Beach FD

            Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

            'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

            Comment


            • #7
              "Scientist" is really a job?
              Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

              Comment


              • #8
                I may have a pail of this stuff gathering dust in a dark storeroom. I will check and get back to you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                  A Google search would be the best route.
                  Obviously, that's what I tried first. For a mixture that was once so prevalent, it's been remarkably hard to find.

                  Originally posted by BlueMtnsFF View Post
                  Its a bit far for shipping, but I know a few stations down here that have a couple of 20L drums gathering dust. You might be able to get our HAZMAT section to send you a sample if you ask nicely

                  http://www.fire.nsw.gov.au

                  New South Wales, Australia
                  Thanks for the reply. Quite far indeed, as I'm in Canada. However, I may pursue this.



                  Originally posted by johnny46 View Post
                  "Scientist" is really a job?
                  Well, "research chemist" is the more precise term.

                  Originally posted by JohnVBFD View Post
                  Got a Navy base near you?

                  Ask them. Write it in stone, they have it.
                  I've pursued the military angle with no success. But, you're right, it is probably worth a second look.



                  Thanks for all of the replies. If anyone else has access to this AFFF, particularly those in Canada or the US, please let me know.

                  Of course, we'd certainly pay all shipping costs, and acknowledge your contribution in any publications we produce.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wischief View Post
                    I may have a pail of this stuff gathering dust in a dark storeroom. I will check and get back to you.

                    Thank you!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fluorine View Post
                      Obviously, that's what I tried first. For a mixture that was once Well, "research chemist" is the more precise term.
                      Way better. When you say: "I'm a scientist," I really just hear: "I took Intro to Chemistry at the local community college and I pour chemicals on bugs when I'm not working at Burger King."
                      Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll look the next time I'm at our fire shop. I remember using that crap, for some reason we couldn't get it to stop coagulating in the tanks. It obviously has a shelf life. We eventually wound up pouring mineral oil over the top in the tank to keep the air off of it.
                        We might still have some left, that is if it hasn't been stolen and thrown in the fountain at city hall. SCIENCE!!

                        Oh, I want in on the class action lawsuit.
                        IAFF

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johnny46 View Post
                          Way better. When you say: "I'm a scientist," I really just hear: "I took Intro to Chemistry at the local community college and I pour chemicals on bugs when I'm not working at Burger King."
                          Just as long as the pouring chemicals on bugs and working at Booger King are kept as two different things.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wouldnt doubt that we have some layin around also.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fluorine View Post


                              Well, "research chemist" is the more precise term.
                              Perhaps the more precise reason for the "research" would be Contracted by a bloodsucking POS trial lawyer laying the groundwork for a hugely profitable class action lawsuit. Go for the deep pockets and who has more cash than 3M.

                              Comment

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