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  • #31
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    HOW LONG have you been in the Fire service? You see to be a bit thin skinned. Or MAYBE stuff is a lot more mellow in Vt. Where Gonzo and Rum and I come from the mind set and activity level is likely different. WE don't get it DONE,somebody has a BAD day. The Hand holding and PC Schit has gone WAY too far,Savvy? T.C.
    Been in the Fire service for 6 years, no I haven't been around that long. But I'm not a greenhorn any longer (Not a greenhorn but always learning). And believe me things aren't that mellow in Vermont. It's not a matter of being thin skinned so much as its just being disappointed in these forums in general. Please don't miss understand, there are some great folks here with a lot of time in the fire service who have a lot of knowledge to share and that is why I came here.

    But there are more insults shared here than valuable pieces of knowledge. I suppose maybe my thin skinned reaction was a result of just being kinda disappointed that nobody here can object to something without being insulted. And maybe it wasn't meant to be an insult, but remember we're reading text here. We cannot sense or interpret the meaning of said text every single time. I'm not trying to create waves, push buttons or cause problems.
    Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
      I don't like spam...
      Nothing wrong with Spam as long as its fried

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by BLSboy View Post
        Isn't fh.com with no trolls or spammers www.iacoj.com?
        Don't you know that is a secret?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
          I never said we recognize one more important than the other, we're very thankful for those young men that want to learn about our job and culture as well as help, still doesn't earn the title firefighter.
          Again, that's your opinion and that's fine.

          I have no issue with classifying everyone on the department as firefighters. That's my opinion.
          Train to fight the fires you fight.

          Comment


          • #35
            I have no issue with classifying everyone on the department as firefighters.
            Easy to do when your department doesn't do any actual fire fighting. Wrong, but hey, call yourself what ever you want to boost your ego.
            My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
            George Mason
            Co-author of the Second Amendment
            during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
            Elevator Rescue Information

            Comment


            • #36
              Irish217 ..

              This is going nowhere as I have my opionion and you have yours.

              I guess I'm not as hung up on the title of "Firefighter" as some mystical and wonderful thing that we should only allow to those with certain training or experience credentials.

              Sorry, doesn't fly with me.

              I guess my idea of a firefighter is pretty loose and fast, and if that offends the "We're soooo special crowd", so be it.

              There are thousands of people fighting fire in this country every day that will never have a chance to go to an academy, or even take FFI/FFII either because their department can't afford it, their state doesn't offer it locally, or their work and/or family commitments will not permit it. I am not going to deny them the title of Firefighter because of that.

              I refuse to deny them the title of firefighter because of where they volunteer, the job they do on the department or whether their department fights fires from the interior or the exterior. If they are doing the job in a rural community without any certs or the "right" certs, sorry, but to me they are Firefighters. If they show up and just squirt water through the windows because that is all the department can afford to do, they are Firefighters. If they simply want to help out and all they do is drive the truck and pump, to me, they are Firefighters. If they support the operation by just setting up ladders and ponds, dumping and filling tankers or setting up fans, they are, in my book, Firefighters. If they are juniors and functioning on the fireground, they, to me, are Firefighters. If they are support folks changing bottles, setting up lights or contributing to the operation in any way, including taking photos to be used for training, they are firefighters in my mind.

              Again, I'm really sorry if you have an issue with this, but it's how I feel, and have always felt. I'm sure I have worked with a large number of rural Firefighters who some of you may not consider as such either because they didn't have the right training, right experience or demonstrated the "right" level of commitment. And honestly that doesn't make a rat's buttocks worth of difference to me as they are all my brothers.

              Sorry, I respect them all, including the juniors and support members operating every day, and they are all Firefighters in my book.
              Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-31-2010, 04:00 PM.
              Train to fight the fires you fight.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
                So your juniors, are they the same thing as an explorer scout? If so then ya'll are screwing up big time, unless ya'll have some kind of amazing insurance company that covers them as well, which I highly doubt. The department I worked for didn't allow explorers, or evern recruits for that matter, anywhere near a fire. The recruits had to graduate recruit school before doing anything other than being a hydrant man, bottle refiller, bottle changer, and hose roller. Even after recruit scholl, they are still called probies until their probationary period is over. If they still didn't cut it, they might be allowed an extended probi e period or cut loose, either way, they still weren't firefighters just yet. So your juniors and your photographers, and whoever else you wanna classify as a firefighter has gone through some sort of academy/probie class or probationary period to earn the right to be called a firefighter? Again, I highly doubt this as well. Firefighter is a title like U.S. Marine, earned, not given, or shouldn't be given anyway. We have civilians that are part of the military team, but I'll be double damned before I give them the honor of being called or calling themselves a Marine. Screw that.

                BTW, you didn't answer my question, want them to start paying them YOUR money because they got there first and saved somebody, took some pictures, or rolled some hose for you?
                I agree with you. Then to have a JR FF raising a ladder (not to mention being in a possible collapse zone) For as safety oriented he wants to be or presents himself, that does not seem to be such a good idea to me.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by dday05 View Post
                  I agree with you. Then to have a JR FF raising a ladder (not to mention being in a possible collapse zone) For as safety oriented he wants to be or presents himself, that does not seem to be such a good idea to me.
                  Our juniors attend the same training and have to demonstrate the exact same skills on their Skills Checklist to get off probation as a Firefighter.

                  So exactly why would they not have the skills needed to raise a ladder given they have to demonstrate it in the exact same manner as a Firefighter to complete their probation?

                  As are as operating in the hot or collapse collapse zones, we do allow our experienced juniors to do a little more than most other departments do. The fact is the ones that we allow to perform these functions have been around awhile, have generally attended extra training well beyond the minimum and have demonstrated the ability to operate in those areas.

                  Do we allow them to make entry into a structure or operate on a roof" No, but they will throw ladders and are involved in exterior fire attack including aggressive wildland and brush operations. We do allow them to pack up and assist with overhaul as well, under the direct supervision of a senior firefighter or officer.

                  Like it or not, it works, and they are far more prepared to step into the role of Firefighter on their 18th birthday than most other juniors. In fact, we just had one of our former juniors, less than 6 months out of our junior program, hired as the first full-time Firefighter by a parish fire district just east of here.

                  We train them and we give them responsibility. It works very well for us.
                  Train to fight the fires you fight.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Arguing and trying to convince lafireeducator about firefighting is like trying to administer medicine to a dead person. There isn't any hope.


                    He has his mind set to do as he does in Bossier Parish, LA. I've been there and really didn't see that much that I would want to settle there. Shreveport is different.


                    Allowing juniors and explorers to operate like members who are firefighters may be OK with them and they accept the legality and liability if they get hurt. In our world they aren't allow anywhere near a hot zone. Everyone does it differently.


                    The bus vs. the pumper, no question who is wrong. The bus driver by law is like any other citizen driving a automotive vehicle, must yield for any emergency vehicle. Looking at the video the bus could and later did, go forward and get out of the way.


                    No one has said but him, about why fire apparatus should stop at red traffic lights, stop signs and respond safely. The video isn't about that.


                    As far as the FDNY member not having his breather, mask, tools and irons in hand and maybe holding his nozzle, the call if you would turn your speakers up, was for an EMS call. Therefore they wouldn't have had all the regalia that is adorned for firefighting!
                    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                      Our juniors attend the same training and have to demonstrate the exact same skills on their Skills Checklist to get off probation as a Firefighter.

                      So exactly why would they not have the skills needed to raise a ladder given they have to demonstrate it in the exact same manner as a Firefighter to complete their probation?

                      As are as operating in the hot or collapse collapse zones, we do allow our experienced juniors to do a little more than most other departments do. The fact is the ones that we allow to perform these functions have been around awhile, have generally attended extra training well beyond the minimum and have demonstrated the ability to operate in those areas.

                      Do we allow them to make entry into a structure or operate on a roof" No, but they will throw ladders and are involved in exterior fire attack including aggressive wildland and brush operations. We do allow them to pack up and assist with overhaul as well, under the direct supervision of a senior firefighter or officer.

                      Like it or not, it works, and they are far more prepared to step into the role of Firefighter on their 18th birthday than most other juniors. In fact, we just had one of our former juniors, less than 6 months out of our junior program, hired as the first full-time Firefighter by a parish fire district just east of here.

                      We train them and we give them responsibility. It works very well for us.
                      Glad one of your JR FF got a job.

                      But I don't get lets say your stance on driving to calls stopping at all intersections and so on and so on about safety... why it is ok for a JR FF who has no fire cert functioning on the fire ground throwing ladders where the could be a possible collapse etc.etc. And haveing them function doing overhaul operations with a SCBA on?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by dday05 View Post
                        Glad one of your JR FF got a job.

                        But I don't get lets say your stance on driving to calls stopping at all intersections and so on and so on about safety... why it is ok for a JR FF who has no fire cert functioning on the fire ground throwing ladders where the could be a possible collapse etc.etc. And haveing them function doing overhaul operations with a SCBA on?
                        Legitimate question.

                        None of our members are required to have a "certification" to operate on the fireground. Instead, each new member is required to complete a Probationary Skills Checklist, which is composed of the FFI skills that we have deemed necessary to operate within our system. Juniors are required to complete the exact same skills checklist, with the exception of the required burn time. So for our purposes, they are trained and signed off to the same level of a firefighter, less the burn time, when they come off probation.

                        They know how to raise ladders, don/doff SCBA, cut open roofs etc etc. As I stated there are things we allow them to do on scene and things we do not. We are quite liberal in terms of the tasks we assign them, and yes, they are allowed to perform overhaul.

                        During training they will also train on the same skills as firefighters. When we have a live car fire drill, the senior juniors will be on the nozzle and the less experienced juniors will be backup men to senior members. They crawl through the burn building and make attack on small fires. they work with the extrication tools, struts and air bags. basically if it's done at training, they do it. So they are trained to the same level as our firefighters.

                        For our senior juniors, if it wasn't for the helmet color, you wouldn't be able to tell they are juniors.

                        That is why they make such a rapid transition to Firefighter at their 18th birthday,
                        Train to fight the fires you fight.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                          They know how to raise ladders, don/doff SCBA, cut open roofs etc etc. As I stated there are things we allow them to do on scene and things we do not. We are quite liberal in terms of the tasks we assign them, and yes, they are allowed to perform overhaul.
                          Please tell me you don't put them on the roof to do ventilation! I mean seriously, that's more dangerous than being IN the house.

                          During training they will also train on the same skills as firefighters. When we have a live car fire drill, the senior juniors will be on the nozzle and the less experienced juniors will be backup men to senior members. They crawl through the burn building and make attack on small fires. they work with the extrication tools, struts and air bags. basically if it's done at training, they do it. So they are trained to the same level as our firefighters.
                          Our explorers did the same things, yet I wouldn't say they're trained to the same level as our firefighters. If your juniors are trained to the same level as you firefighters, which evidently they aren't becaue they don't do the live burn for the check-offs as you said, then why even have junior members. Hell, make 'em all firefighters then. Oh, wait, they are to you.

                          For our senior juniors, if it wasn't for the helmet color, you wouldn't be able to tell they are juniors.
                          SUUUURRRREEEEEE!

                          That is why they make such a rapid transition to Firefighter at their 18th birthday,
                          No, that's why you're department is going to get sued all to hell one day when one gets hurt on a scene while doing overall or any other job that isn't covered by most insurers. Because I'm sure they're not covered under you department's insurer.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Against my better judgment I'll continue this little back and forth .....

                            Please tell me you don't put them on the roof to do ventilation! I mean seriously, that's more dangerous than being IN the house.

                            As I stated in an earlier post, they do not operate on the roof or interior during initial fire attack. They will also not be on a line at all during battery tank, well site or refinery operations.

                            An experienced junior may be allowed to be in a backup position at a car/vehicle fire but will not be on the nozzle or doing irons work.

                            They also are obviously not involved in any haz-mat operations including decon and will only provide support roles in the cold zone.

                            We allow them to work along an active fire line at a brush fire under supervision.

                            Our explorers did the same things, yet I wouldn't say they're trained to the same level as our firefighters. If your juniors are trained to the same level as you firefighters, which evidently they aren't becaue they don't do the live burn for the check-offs as you said, then why even have junior members. Hell, make 'em all firefighters then. Oh, wait, they are to you.

                            As I stated they do not perform structural fire attack so they are not required structural burn time to check off, though they are allowed to participate in structural fire training in the burn building. They are however, not allowed to participate in burns in acquired structures. They do participate in live vehicle burns. Again, even though they can't use skills acquired in the burn building today, it prepares them for the transition at 18.

                            SUUUURRRREEEEEE!:coo l:

                            Believe what you will, but our experienced juniors have had a very successful track record very early in their careers due to how we prepare them. The number that we have sent to career departments at a young age testifies to that.

                            No, that's why you're department is going to get sued all to hell one day when one gets hurt on a scene while doing overall or any other job that isn't covered by most insurers. Because I'm sure they're not covered under you department's insurer.

                            Agreed that it is a potential issue. However, the department feels comfortable as this has been the way the program has operated for 20 plus years. it is my opinion that we should scale back what we allow to some extent, but again, that decision lies above my pay grade and my rank.
                            Train to fight the fires you fight.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              So is there any fire certs required in LA?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by dday05 View Post
                                So is there any fire certs required in LA?
                                LA requires no training standard for career or volunteer firefighters.

                                At this time it is left up to the departments to establish minimum training standards, or no standards at all.

                                That being said, a department will receive bonus credit on the rating for any member with a certification.

                                According to the new Disaster Response Protocols, any firefighter, career or volunteer should have a minimum of FFI to be deployed with their agency.

                                It does require career firefighters to have FFI to receive State Supplemental pay of $6K a year 1 year after the date of hire.

                                LSU Fire Training requires FFI for some advanced training, particularly technical rescue training such as confined space, trench and high angle.
                                Train to fight the fires you fight.

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