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Abandoned..Not Vacant--Why We Need to Enter and Search (as best possible)

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  • Abandoned..Not Vacant--Why We Need to Enter and Search (as best possible)

    CNN --

    Eight people died in a fire in an abandoned building in New Orleans overnight, the city fire department said Tuesday.

    The victims are believed to have been homeless.

    A fire department dispatcher said the call came in shortly before 2 a.m.

    Chief Charles Parent told CNN affiliate WDSU that the victims may have sough warmth inside the building as temperatures dipped below freezing in the area.

    A freeze warning was in effect for the region early Tuesday, WDSU reported.

  • #2
    Yup, there's no reason to search a vacant building...

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, ask Chicago, FDNY, some of those places have makeshift apartments.
      Benton Fire District Four
      Ladder One
      First Due!


      Caddo Parish Fire District 1
      Career Firefighter/Paramedic


      When things get rough, just say:
      Acabo de perder cinco minutos de su vida.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree len. Like you put "as best as possible" in general doing a size up and 360, you could make the choice of either yes or no to conduct a search/ go interrior.

        Comment


        • #5
          Another fine example of why real world experience, that earned on the fire ground, is even more valuable.
          But unfortunately, the safety sallies will, without knowing all the facts mind you, will run with the tragedy of Chicago and use cute little catch phrases to do what ever they can do to eliminate any risk in this job. Not the fact that abandon doesn't mean vacant.
          My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
          "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
          George Mason
          Co-author of the Second Amendment
          during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
          Elevator Rescue Information

          Comment


          • #6
            Waiting to see comments about why this is not an example for why we search all buildings.
            Let the spin begin.

            Comment


            • #7
              Isn't that the primary job of a Ladder Co? besides vent ops?
              Benton Fire District Four
              Ladder One
              First Due!


              Caddo Parish Fire District 1
              Career Firefighter/Paramedic


              When things get rough, just say:
              Acabo de perder cinco minutos de su vida.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by flipper123 View Post
                Waiting to see comments about why this is not an example for why we search all buildings.
                Let the spin begin.
                Without al the facts, I don't see how anyone on either side of the arguement can make an honest case here. From what I have heard, their were survivors outside when the first units arrived telling them that folks were inside. Kind of removes this from being a case study.
                Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
                -Big Russ

                Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

                Originally posted by nyckftbl
                LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

                Comment


                • #9
                  We don't need case studies. Fires in "abandoned" buildings are usually not started by rats playing with matches. If there's no lightning about, you might oughta suspect people were about.
                  Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by len1582 View Post
                    CNN --

                    Eight people died in a fire in an abandoned building in New Orleans overnight, the city fire department said Tuesday.
                    WHAT???? How could that be?? It was a "vacant" building GDammit!!!
                    RK
                    cell #901-494-9437

                    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

                    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


                    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
                      Isn't that the primary job of a Ladder Co? besides vent ops?
                      I believe it's everyones job. Not just Ladder and Rescue Co's. Sometimes a nozzleman can find someone while advancing.

                      Originally posted by johnny46 View Post
                      We don't need case studies. Fires in "abandoned" buildings are usually not started by rats playing with matches. If there's no lightning about, you might oughta suspect people were about.
                      Not sure johnny. The Arson Squad by me has fallen under the budgetary axe and was disbanded. I think there will be alot of 'rats playing with matches' soon.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
                        Another fine example of why real world experience, that earned on the fire ground, is even more valuable.
                        But unfortunately, the safety sallies will, without knowing all the facts mind you, will run with the tragedy of Chicago and use cute little catch phrases to do what ever they can do to eliminate any risk in this job. Not the fact that abandon doesn't mean vacant.
                        Great post!!

                        I agree 110%
                        Jason Knecht
                        Firefighter/EMT
                        Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                        Eau Claire, WI

                        IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                        http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                        EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Searches should be done unless the structure and fire conditions prevent it.
                          I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                          "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                          "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Searches should be done unless the structure and fire conditions prevent it
                            But Chief, my college degree and all those table top exercises didn't teach me how to read those conditions....
                            Sorry for the sarcasm, couldnt resist! LOL (but we agree)
                            My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                            George Mason
                            Co-author of the Second Amendment
                            during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                            Elevator Rescue Information

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
                              But Chief, my college degree and all those table top exercises didn't teach me how to read those conditions....
                              Sorry for the sarcasm, couldnt resist! LOL (but we agree)
                              I wonder if you could create a college degree curriculum that would reflect those skills?

                              The science and all is a given, but what about some real, evidence based, college level tactics courses? Do they exist?

                              Sorry for veering off topic.
                              I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                              "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                              "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                              Comment

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