Abandoned..Not Vacant--Why We Need to Enter and Search (as best possible)

[len1582]

CNN --

Eight people died in a fire in an abandoned building in New Orleans overnight, the city fire department said Tuesday.

The victims are believed to have been homeless.

A fire department dispatcher said the call came in shortly before 2 a.m.

Chief Charles Parent told CNN affiliate WDSU that the victims may have sough warmth inside the building as temperatures dipped below freezing in the area.

A freeze warning was in effect for the region early Tuesday, WDSU reported.

[flipper123]

Yup, there's no reason to search a vacant building...

[FIREguy2011]

Well, ask Chicago, FDNY, some of those places have makeshift apartments.

[dday05]

I agree len. Like you put "as best as possible" in general doing a size up and 360, you could make the choice of either yes or no to conduct a search/ go interrior.

[SPFDRum]

Another fine example of why real world experience, that earned on the fire ground, is even more valuable.
But unfortunately, the safety sallies will, without knowing all the facts mind you, will run with the tragedy of Chicago and use cute little catch phrases to do what ever they can do to eliminate any risk in this job. Not the fact that abandon doesn't mean vacant.

[flipper123]

Waiting to see comments about why this is not an example for why we search all buildings.
Let the spin begin.

[FIREguy2011]

Isn't that the primary job of a Ladder Co? besides vent ops?

[DennisTheMenace]

Waiting to see comments about why this is not an example for why we search all buildings.
Let the spin begin.

Without al the facts, I don't see how anyone on either side of the arguement can make an honest case here. From what I have heard, their were survivors outside when the first units arrived telling them that folks were inside. Kind of removes this from being a case study.

[johnny46]

We don't need case studies. Fires in "abandoned" buildings are usually not started by rats playing with matches. If there's no lightning about, you might oughta suspect people were about.

[MemphisE34a]

CNN --

Eight people died in a fire in an abandoned building in New Orleans overnight, the city fire department said Tuesday.

WHAT???? How could that be?? It was a "vacant" building GDammit!!!

[len1582]

Isn't that the primary job of a Ladder Co? besides vent ops?

I believe it's everyones job. Not just Ladder and Rescue Co's. Sometimes a nozzleman can find someone while advancing.

We don't need case studies. Fires in "abandoned" buildings are usually not started by rats playing with matches. If there's no lightning about, you might oughta suspect people were about.

Not sure johnny. The Arson Squad by me has fallen under the budgetary axe and was disbanded. I think there will be alot of 'rats playing with matches' soon.

[Dickey]

Another fine example of why real world experience, that earned on the fire ground, is even more valuable.
But unfortunately, the safety sallies will, without knowing all the facts mind you, will run with the tragedy of Chicago and use cute little catch phrases to do what ever they can do to eliminate any risk in this job. Not the fact that abandon doesn't mean vacant.

Great post!!

I agree 110%

[ChiefKN]

Searches should be done unless the structure and fire conditions prevent it.

[SPFDRum]

Searches should be done unless the structure and fire conditions prevent it

But Chief, my college degree and all those table top exercises didn't teach me how to read those conditions....
Sorry for the sarcasm, couldnt resist! LOL (but we agree)

[ChiefKN]

But Chief, my college degree and all those table top exercises didn't teach me how to read those conditions....
Sorry for the sarcasm, couldnt resist! LOL (but we agree)

I wonder if you could create a college degree curriculum that would reflect those skills?

The science and all is a given, but what about some real, evidence based, college level tactics courses? Do they exist?

Sorry for veering off topic.