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  • Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Certainly a point in that. We run multiple preconnected lines and the first due runs one of each: SB, Elkhart Fog and a Vindicator. The best of all worlds.
    I gave you our reasons for using what we use. You "agreed" with that by telling me you have multiple nozzles for your handlines and select which line/nozzle at the time. That's fine, it works for you. We prefer to not have to choose which line and use same nozzle for all lines.

    I'm not giving you 5 reasons. I gave you our 1.

    We don't use automatics anymore. Used to, never found the need for the added cost. We also never maintained them. Nothing. And had 2 salesmen walk out mad because when he ran his flowtests to show how "inferior" the flow was going to be...he was proven wrong. Ya, I've heard horror stories on all the problems that will occur with fogs getting clogged up. Never talked to anyone face to face that actually had that happen, but there are some good stories out there.

    My sister company in town uses smoothbores alone for most of their lines. They always talk about the better reach/penetration. I ask them, how many residences do we enter that we need to be shooting a handline, interior, 50'. That answer is 0 by the way.

    I will readily admit, and it was my doing, our 2 1/2" lines are smoothbore only. At that size line, for our uses of it, that penetration becomes more of an issue. And I truly have not been to a call where I ever needed a giant fog pattern.

    It is close to Christmas. There is no "ire" here. We are having a discussion, one which I think has been pretty good. Exchange of ideas and thoughts is not a bad thing.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bones42 View Post
      I gave you our reasons for using what we use. You "agreed" with that by telling me you have multiple nozzles for your handlines and select which line/nozzle at the time. That's fine, it works for you. We prefer to not have to choose which line and use same nozzle for all lines.

      I'm not giving you 5 reasons. I gave you our 1.
      No disagreement here. One reasons is enough for your FD, that's enough for me. I only asked for the 5 reasons as that's what was asked of the SB. Every FD has the right to make their selections of just about everything based on what they see as the most sensible thing for their FD. I'm always interested in the why particular choices are made and what drives the decision. Not saying these decisions are incorrect, just trying to further my education, I've got at least 1o more years to learn everything...

      I have been to a few calls where a big fog was called for, all for LPG tanks/piping leaking. For that reason we carry fog nozzle for the 2.5" lines as well as fog master stream tips, but all are in a compartment, not tipped out.
      Last edited by RFDACM02; 12-23-2010, 11:48 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
        Not me. Give me what you got MINUS the open butt with your thumb over it.They ALL have their place but with a decent nozzle operator ALL will put out FIRE. T.C.
        And that I'd never debate!
        Last edited by RFDACM02; 12-23-2010, 11:43 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
          No disagreement here. One reasons is enough for your FD, that's enough for me. I only asked for the 5 reasons as that's what was asked of the SB. Every FD has the right to make their selections of just about everything based on what they see as the most sensible thing for their FD. I'm always interested in the why particular choices are made and what drives the decision. Not saying these decisions are incorrect, just trying to further my education, I've got at least 1o more years to learn everything...

          I have been to a few calls where a big fog was called for, all for LPG tanks/piping leaking. For that reason we carry fog nozzle for the 2.5" lines as well as fog master stream tips, but all are in a compartment, not tipped out.
          10 years? OPTIMIST! I've been HERE longer than you will be THERE and I'm learning stuff EVERY day. If you get it ALL in 10 years let me know how that happens,Hehe T.C.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
            Where is that post? After checking out his posts using the SEARCH button, I saw none of what you just said, LIAR.
            I have heard of people getting steamed on accident by not checking their combination nozzle settings. Plus can't you read his signature? He is on a Rescue Squad (whatever the heck that is).
            You call the guy a liar because you can't find a post he was refering to? Ok, then we will just call you IDIOT.

            And Rescue Squad. I can understand you not understanding what that is, it does have different connotations in many places. Here are some examples. You see what the firefighters down in your area drive?

            http://www.bpfd1.org/Apparatus/APPARATUS.htm

            That first vehicle is similar to what many rescue squads drive. Maybe you can ask them for a tour of the equipment.

            In many cities, the rescue squad is full of experienced firefighters providing extra expertise and manpower to a fire scene. It also includes extrication and specialized rescue. Here is another link to a great squad,

            http://www.facebook.com/pages/City-o...1/245862254295



            Steamed by accident? There are no accidents - there is however a failure to check the setting before going interior.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
              10 years? OPTIMIST! I've been HERE longer than you will be THERE and I'm learning stuff EVERY day. If you get it ALL in 10 years let me know how that happens,Hehe T.C.
              Well I figure I can retire in 10 maybe add 5 more for an extra 10%. But I figure once you know everything it's time to get done, thus my optimism in becoming a know it all!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
                Not me. Give me what you got MINUS the open butt with your thumb over it.They ALL have their place but with a decent nozzle operator ALL will put out FIRE. T.C.
                Tim... when it comes to this topic, sometimes I swear that there are those with their thumb in their butt and their brain went into neutral!
                Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 12-23-2010, 02:16 PM.
                ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                Comment


                • Ah so nice to be back in the thick of things- down in the forum trenches defining the pride we share in what we've learned.

                  It really is a reflection of the passion we have for the knowledge we've gained over the years.

                  To add my bit into the argument- we brought the saberjets into service in the wake of Calgary Fire adopting them. Did some training and familiarization with their guys and I really liked it. Nozzle is expensive (not really an issue where I am), and a little on the larger / heavier side... but overall it added some versitility to our interior and exterior assignments. It reduced operating pressures, facilitated the removal of debris in our standpipe systems or ice in exterior lines and also accommodated any tactical requirement we had. Some of the guys overall weren't too impressed with it because of the different ways of turning it on but frankly it was just a training issue more than anything. Folks in general tend to stick with what they're comfortable with... so we have the nozzles on the truck but they're an option someone can use to build a line instead of one they might pull off a preconnect.

                  I enjoy seeing the support for both and put my name in the pot with all the others who say "pick the right nozzle for the job." If that happens to be the one that's best for the job in the officer's experience, the one the guy on the nozzle chooses because that's what he knows best, or the only one on the whole truck... well that's the one!
                  Ian "Eno" McLeod

                  Comment


                  • How about this novel idea; spend as much time learning how to use the nozzle your department provides as you do trying to convince someone else their choice is wrong, you may actually have some worthwhile skills.
                    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                    George Mason
                    Co-author of the Second Amendment
                    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                    Elevator Rescue Information

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by spfdrum View Post
                      how about this novel idea; spend as much time learning how to use the nozzle your department provides as you do trying to convince someone else their choice is wrong, you may actually have some worthwhile skills.
                      say what? T.c.

                      Comment


                      • FIREguy2011

                        You couldn't just google VB Rescue 14?

                        TOPIC:
                        If the nozzle doesn't matter (according to some of you it doesn't) and doesn't change the way the fire is put out, then why are there different ones?
                        VB Rescue Squad 14
                        EMT-Basic

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dr.Rescue.EMT View Post
                          TOPIC:
                          If the nozzle doesn't matter (according to some of you it doesn't) and doesn't change the way the fire is put out, then why are there different ones?
                          1. Because everybody has a "better mousetrap." Sometimes the theory doesn't match the actual performance, but it sounds good on paper. One would have to go back to the original introduction of each product to see why the inventor felt it was superior to others on the market.

                          2. Experience. One bad experience with an otherwise sound technology can sour a person on that technology. The opposites can also be true.

                          3. Environment. Just pulling from what's here in this thread, fog nozzles are perhaps better suited to small, compartmentalized fires (SFD). Straight tips are thought to be more valuable where reach and volume are factors (strip malls/taxpayers). Etc and so on. (Kindly refrain from using this as a springboard for discussion - the points have already been made elsewhere.)

                          The bottom line is that nobody's right, and everybody's right. What works for you works for you. That doesn't make this discussion pointless - I may see something that piques my interest - an application I hadn't thought of - which may lead me to try something new. Or not.
                          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dr.Rescue.EMT View Post
                            You couldn't just google VB Rescue 14?

                            TOPIC:
                            If the nozzle doesn't matter (according to some of you it doesn't) and doesn't change the way the fire is put out, then why are there different ones?
                            The nozzle doesn't matter. The skill, knowledge, and real world experience of the nozzle operator matter.

                            The other thing that seems to be forgotten every time one of these discussions come up is the guy at the end of the hose line, crawling down that hallway, battling the leaping yellow jaws of flaming death, usually has not one damn thing to say about the type of nozzle being used. Some one in a white shirt in a castle far away decides what will be used. It may be what he used when he was a grunt, it may be the latest gizmo some salesman said was the best thing ever, or if miracles occur it may have been determined by research and filed testing. Rarely is it because Joe Fireplug said to buy nozzle xyz because it is cool.

                            Taking the above into account the nozzleman really has one choice. Utilize the tool supplied to him in the best manner possible. We have firefighters here that use smoothbores, low pressure combos, 100 psi combos, automatic combos, and vindicators. The smart amongst us learn to use what we have to the best of its and OUR ability. We may wish we had something else but those wishes don't make us good at what we have. learn how to best use the tools you have to do you job and then shut up and do it.
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dr.Rescue.EMT View Post
                              You couldn't just google VB Rescue 14?

                              TOPIC:
                              If the nozzle doesn't matter (according to some of you it doesn't) and doesn't change the way the fire is put out, then why are there different ones?
                              Why are there Chevies,Fords and Dodges? They ALL get you there. T.C.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dr.Rescue.EMT View Post
                                You couldn't just google VB Rescue 14?

                                TOPIC:
                                If the nozzle doesn't matter (according to some of you it doesn't) and doesn't change the way the fire is put out, then why are there different ones?
                                Same reason there are Seagraves, Peirce, Sutphen, Ferrera, HME, KME, Spartan, etc.

                                Comment

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