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  • firefightinirish217
    replied
    All Dalton ever uses is automatic fog nozzels. Wanna guess how many times we've ever had a nozzle clog? I'll go ahead and tell you, 0, zilch, nada, Dalton never had one clog. If your nozzle is clogging, you have bigger problems than the fact you are using a fog nozzle, you might want to get your tank and/or pump checked.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    1) The ability to change the pattern appropriate to the task at hand. (venting, overhaul, indirect attack)
    SB's can be used the same way with some very basic training.
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    2) Single gallonage, non-automatic nozzles, are not complicated nozzles. Many are repaired in house.
    Many more parts, moving and fixed, which equals more potential problems. So while their not complicated, they are much more complex that SB's.
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    3) With non-automatic nozzles quantity and quality of the stream is immediately obivous to the nozzleman.
    Not nearly as obvious as a SB, and that cuts out a huge section of the F.S. who use automatics. Maybe address the real issue clogging the tiny orifices?
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    4) With a low pressure nozzle the stream contains larger water droplets and remains cohesive very similarly to a smooth bore.
    Similar, but inferior. Clearly a solid stream has far larger droplets that any fog. A tight fog pattern is made up of millions of tiny particles which evaporate much quicker, delivering less actual gpm on the target when high heat is encountered.
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    5) With a breakapart nozzle the versatility of a combo tip AND a smoothbore is available.
    Similarly, I could carry a fog tip in my pocket and screw it on the end of my shut off if I thought I'd ever need the fog.

    So, let's see 5 things a fog nozzle can do better in an structure fire. I'll start you off:

    1. Better hydraulic vent.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Well, there you go.

    Are we done now?

    Anyone who relies on the nozzle type to determine their effectiveness in putting out a fire is a poor firefighter.
    What are you the referee? Try adding something useful to the conversation, or just don't click on the thread if you're growing tired of people asking why fog?

    Not a single person has attempted to answer what they feel makes the fog nozzle superior. Fyred merely refuted (weakly at that) my 5 "pros" of SB's. Clearly, fog proponents cannot sell the fog on it's own merits, thus they try and tear apart any mention of a superior quality from the SB. And again, I use both, have put out fire with both and will continue to happily do so for many years. I'm merely pondering what makes you all so uppity about the fog nozzles?

    And SP: Really? You really, said you understand SB's in FDNY but not most other places? Why did they change how fire burns in NYC? Do they not have frame dwellings or us fireproof? What gives, worried some FDNY guys will take you to task? Since the rest of us have fewer fires than FDNY, we all need to ignore any lessons they learned? Only to needlessly learn the hard way?

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Please reciprocate with a list of the superior fog nozzle traits. Everytime I ask, I get more questions and no answers
    Well, there you go.

    Are we done now?

    Anyone who relies on the nozzle type to determine their effectiveness in putting out a fire is a poor firefighter.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREguy2011
    replied
    he showed you didn't he?
    Lol j/k.

    Anyways, cmon, why does it really matter?

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I'm not a SB only guy, but here's 5 quick:

    1. Cheaper, by a long shot
    2. 1-3 moving parts, simplicity at it's finest
    3. least likely to clog or have a partial obstruction
    4. quantity and quality immediately visible to the nozzleman
    5. more water ends on the target than equal gpm fog when high temps encountered though not a common factor, a reality.

    Please reciprocate with a list of the superior fog nozzle traits. Everytime I ask, I get more questions and no answers
    1) The ability to change the pattern appropriate to the task at hand. (venting, overhaul, indirect attack)
    2) Single gallonage, non-automatic nozzles, are not complicated nozzles. Many are repaired in house.
    3) With non-automatic nozzles quantity and quality of the stream is immediately obivous to the nozzleman.
    4) With a low pressure nozzle the stream contains larger water droplets and remains cohesive very similarly to a smooth bore.
    5) With a breakapart nozzle the versatility of a combo tip AND a smoothbore is available.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
    For the "smooth bore only" crowd, humor me and post 5 bullet proof reasons that a smooth bore is that superior. But some parameters: If it's "because we always have", or "thats how so and so does it", nice try; if its steam burns/thermo balance disruption, I would look at your training program; if its volume, basic research will show a low pressure fog can deliver the same; reach, same; breakover, same; droplets loss/dispersement due to wind....really?
    I can completely see why FDNY does, and other extremely urban/tenement cities due. But bedroom USA? Oh, one other point, you CAFS guys don't count!!!!
    I'm not a SB only guy, but here's 5 quick:

    1. Cheaper, by a long shot
    2. 1-3 moving parts, simplicity at it's finest
    3. least likely to clog or have a partial obstruction
    4. quantity and quality immediately visible to the nozzleman
    5. more water ends on the target than equal gpm fog when high temps encountered though not a common factor, a reality.

    Please reciprocate with a list of the superior fog nozzle traits. Everytime I ask, I get more questions and no answers

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyChiefGonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    So is everyone saying, that smooth bore nozzles are just a marketing poly to make more money?
    Nothing of the kind was stated.

    Smoothbores are the "original" nozzles.. and like combos, Rockwood fogs, Navy nozzles, Bresnan's, piercing nozzles and Vindicators.. they are tools in the arsenal.

    The nozzle don't put out the fire.. it's the experience and training of the firefighter on the knob that does!

    Leave a comment:


  • SPFDRum
    replied
    For the "smooth bore only" crowd, humor me and post 5 bullet proof reasons that a smooth bore is that superior. But some parameters: If it's "because we always have", or "thats how so and so does it", nice try; if its steam burns/thermo balance disruption, I would look at your training program; if its volume, basic research will show a low pressure fog can deliver the same; reach, same; breakover, same; droplets loss/dispersement due to wind....really?
    I can completely see why FDNY does, and other extremely urban/tenement cities due. But bedroom USA? Oh, one other point, you CAFS guys don't count!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bones42
    replied
    Wait....smoothbore's or FIT-5's?

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    So is everyone saying, that smooth bore nozzles are just a marketing poly to make more money?
    I think that everyone said that.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREguy2011
    replied
    So is everyone saying, that smooth bore nozzles are just a marketing poly to make more money?

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Bones42 View Post
    The advantage to us is 1 nozzle that can be used for many tasks. We simply don't see any advantage to having to choose which nozzle to put on the end of the hose depending on what the situation is. It's one less thing to worry about. 1 nozzle handles all situations.
    Certainly a point in that. We run multiple preconnected lines and the first due runs one of each: SB, Elkhart Fog and a Vindicator. The best of all worlds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Can't disagree with anything, but similarly, I don't see the SUPER advantage of either. I'm just curious why such strong feelings about fogs. We have smoothbores, auto fogs, fixed fogs, adjustable fogs, and the Vindicator all will work and I wouldn't hesitate a second with any one for residential fire attack. I'd actually prefer the Vindicator personally.

    Still no answer? Besides moving air, what is the advantage to the more expensive and number of moving parts?
    Boss solved PART of that problem . He started buying Sabrejets. Both worlds,ONE nozzle. We use the SINGLE shutoff version. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Fires are still getting extinguished.... so wtf is this argument about again?
    'Cause we CAN. Hehe T.C.

    Leave a comment:

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