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  • Smoothbore or fog nozzle...

    The opinions on this site are generally one or the other.

    After commenting a little in the last nozzle thread, I've noticed that the opinions vary on fire behavior and nozzles. Some believe the exact opposite of what others believe to be the gospel truth.

    My question is for the purpose of nozzle choice for interior attack only
    Two choices; if you "had" to pick between smoothbore OR fog, which would it be and why.

    I understand there are combo-smoothbore/fogs, however, my question is for smooth versus fog, only.

    Note: I am only 15 and in search of feedback. I'm an explorer and I know very little. Thanks

  • #2
    Wait! I have to get the popcorn ready for this one!


    Ok, now I'm ready...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
      The opinions on this site are generally one or the other.

      After commenting a little in the last nozzle thread, I've noticed that the opinions vary on fire behavior and nozzles. Some believe the exact opposite of what others believe to be the gospel truth.

      My question is for the purpose of nozzle choice for interior attack only
      Two choices; if you "had" to pick between smoothbore OR fog, which would it be and why.

      I understand there are combo-smoothbore/fogs, however, my question is for smooth versus fog, only.

      Note: I am only 15 and in search of feedback. I'm an explorer and I know very little. Thanks
      You might want to use the search feature for this subject. There are several threads on this.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tfpd109 View Post
        You might want to use the search feature for this subject. There are several threads on this.
        True dat!

        Give me a smoothbore with CAFS coming out of the squirty end of the hose....out in the country that is. As for work, I'll take whatever they'll give me, although a 75psi breakaway gives a lot of options!
        Career Fire Captain
        Volunteer Chief Officer


        Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

        Comment


        • #5
          You have got to be kidding me...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CGITCH View Post
            You have got to be kidding me...
            Sadly,no!!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tony4310 View Post
              Sadly,no!!!!
              I know the answer is probably obvious to you folks, but not to me.

              I had my beliefs on this topic before this, but now I realize I should get some contrasting opinions, as I believe I've only heard one side of the story.

              I've read the threads from the past.

              The current postings are so varied, it left me unsettled regarding what to think. I would like "current" feedback from members.

              Comment


              • #8
                I prefer automatics, Elkhart sm-30 with a break away tip to be exact.

                For interior fire attack I want a fog nozzle. With them you have every option.

                Just my two cents.
                Get the first line into operation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What you will find is that it will vary from department to department and area to area. In general you will also learn what works for FDNY might not work for St. Louis and what works for St. Louis might not work for Dallas. What works for all them might not work for a small department anywhere else and vice versa.

                  To answer your question we use TFT automatic combination nozzles. Are they the best? I don't know, but we like them and have had no problems with them. It is what my department has used since before I started in 92.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Smoothbore for penetration, distance, GPM, and low pressure.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've been around long enough for me to say... It Depends. Mostly because I'm old enough to have used them both upon occasion. Depends and Nozzles that is. For most fires, I want the versatility of a fog nozzle, because despite all the safety sallies, I still like the option of indirect attack and the ability to force fire and combustion products ahead of my advance. Having said this blasphemy, there are conditions where the use of a fog pattern is a distinct hazard to the operating hose crew. Anytime the crew gets above or between the fire and the ventilation point, there is going to be trouble with a fog pattern. An inch and three quarter line with an automatic nozzle set at 30 deg. fog will entrain at least 5,000 cubic feet of gasses per minute into the stream. The second thing a fog pattern does is develop huge amounts of steam. This is a distinct advantage when operating in a confined area, provided that the confined area is not occupied by either unprepared firefighters or victims. Many times the initial hose line is advancing on the fire before adequate ventilation has been established. This results in the steam being forced back over the crew and recycled through the room or rooms rapidly by the action of the fog pattern. Condensing steam is bringing 970 BTU per pound back upon the hose line crew. The water condenses on anything that is below 212 deg. F, including you and your gear.
                      The combination allows the option of going to a straight stream for reach and to hit the base of the fire, minimizing the air entrainment and thus preventing the violent turbulence inside an unvented space. I completely agree with those who advocate a solid stream when using a standpipe operation, because of possible debris in the system. Having learned to fight fire with high pressure fog, laced with "Penetro-wet", I completely appreciate the advantages provided by CAFS, and the resultant rapid extinguishment due to reflection of the heat and the penetration of the fuel by the water and surfactant.
                      I can confidently repeat... It Depends... And sometimes when one doesn't work try the other, but you can't do that with a fixed fog, nor with a solid bore nozzle.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rm1524 View Post
                        In general you will also learn what works for FDNY might not work for St. Louis and what works for St. Louis might not work for Dallas. What works for all them might not work for a small department anywhere else and vice versa.
                        I'll bet any of us can make any of the standard nozzles work, it's just that we choose not to. Many places are stuck in years of misapplied theories with years of experience doing it one way, thus trying anything else gets a chilly reception from all levels. Just look at the evidence showing the safest and most efficient hose/nozzle combination for standpipe ops, and then look at how many FD's do anything to justify their use of 1.75" with 100 psi fog nozzles.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
                          I know the answer is probably obvious to you folks, but not to me.

                          I had my beliefs on this topic before this, but now I realize I should get some contrasting opinions, as I believe I've only heard one side of the story.

                          I've read the threads from the past.

                          The current postings are so varied, it left me unsettled regarding what to think. I would like "current" feedback from members.
                          HOW ABOUT: USING what your AGENCY issues? ASSUMING of course that you: Are OLD enough to hold the nozzle,have been TRAINED to USE the nozzle,and have COMPLETED enough TRAINING to be allowed interior. OOPs,you're coming up a little SHORT aren't you? T.C.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BKDRAFT View Post
                            Smoothbore for penetration, distance, GPM, and low pressure.
                            Myths.

                            Penetration/distance are essentially the same thing and the straight stream from a properly adjusted adjustable is only marginally less effective than a comparable solid stream from a smoothbore.

                            As for GPM and pressure, just compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges and choose the right nozzle for the job.
                            "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                            sigpic
                            The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
                              HOW ABOUT: USING what your AGENCY issues? ASSUMING of course that you: Are OLD enough to hold the nozzle,have been TRAINED to USE the nozzle,and have COMPLETED enough TRAINING to be allowed interior. OOPs,you're coming up a little SHORT aren't you? T.C.
                              ^^^You know I'm an explorer and only 15. I'm trying to learn now, not to be told I'm too young. ("note" in the original post).

                              I have no problem using whatever my agency uses when that time comes. My question isn't regarding what my agency uses, I want to actually learn about things. That way, my knowledge isn't to the effect of; "because it's what our agency uses, or it's what we've always done".

                              Thanks

                              Comment

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