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  • #31
    Originally posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Marshall, how does a fog "ever" help you in "interior" fire attack? Turn right for subpar penetration, turn left for lobster.
    See above under "sufficient training and know-how."

    Penetration with a properly adjusted straight stream is just fine when it's called for and a properly executed indirect attack doesn't make lobsters; it does put out very large volumes of fire, cools the environment considerably, reduces flashover potential, and uses remarkably little water.

    Or, if your training and judgement is lacking, you can just brute-force a fire to death with a smooth bore.

    Water mixed with air is counter productive.
    Not inherently. Water puts out fire by cooling. Sometimes the best way to deliver that water is by applying it to the seat of the fire. Sometimes the best way to deliver it it is to apply it to the superheated atmosphere before you can even approach the seat of the fire. A combination nozzle delivers both options effectively; a smoothbore doesn't.

    Fogging or widening the patter, aka breaking away from a solid stream, goes against fighting the fire and understanding fire behavior
    Not even remotely true.

    Why not put it out faster with a more effective stream?
    Because the "most effective stream" depends on the fire conditions.

    You'll be much more comfortable in the building by producing less steam, and most importantly put the fire out faster.
    Before we continue, is this from your personal experience as an interior structural firefighter?

    are you a Marshal?. How long have you been off the line?
    Yes. What makes you think that I am? 25 years as a career firefighter with 8 of them as a Captain/Training Officer and 10 of them as a state academy instructor.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
    sigpic
    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
      Dammit. You figured me out. Foiled again.
      LOL!! I was beginning to wonder if this wasn't someone's " hittin' the wine and sayin it like it is" alter ego.

      I agree, that cheap isn't always better. Sure you saved some bread, but if the cheap plastic bale breaks off every other use; the spinning fog teeth become a projectile, etc- the "bargain" nozzles will cost more in the long run. You get what you pay for...

      You might check with other depts, and see if they have any surplus they'd like to get rid of. Maybe someone who believed all the hype from an over zealous salesman, and now has a bunch of, say, TFT handlines they'd like to make go away lol.

      I like Fyred up's idea- a break apart combo with built in smoothbore tip. Esp if you can use the same discharge pressure with both. Makes everyone's life easier, AND gives you the best features of both types of tip.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by BW21 View Post
        Well... if you have a small room and contents fire I see no reason why not to hit the ceiling with a narrow fog and pencil the rest..... but on everything else....
        And that's an option you have with a combi nozzle you don't get with a smoothbore. A combi nozzle will do more than a smoothbore. Why choose a nozzle that doesn't give you any options?

        smoothbore allll the way... i dont feel like being steam burned
        If you get steamburned, you did it wrong. Why blame the nozzle for operator error?
        "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
        sigpic
        The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
          Marshall, how does a fog "ever" help you in "interior" fire attack? Turn right for subpar penetration, turn left for lobster.

          The straight stream provided from the fog has more "air" than the smoothbore. You say more experience means you can make decisions when fogs are better? Water mixed with air is counter productive. Fogging or widening the patter, aka breaking away from a solid stream, goes against fighting the fire and understanding fire behavior, which I'm sure you know, as a Marshall. Why not put it out faster with a more effective stream? You don't need fog inside a building "while" attacking the fire. You'll be much more comfortable in the building by producing less steam, and most importantly put the fire out faster.

          Marshall, I'm curious, are you a Marshal?. How long have you been off the line? If you're volunteer, where is it? I like to look at the experience of the commenter's here, it helps to determine what opinions I form.

          Thanks
          And YOU are basing this on WHAT level of experience?
          Our agency has used a variety of nozzles over the last 50 years INCLUDING fogs and EVERYBODY here still has all their skin attached. Sounds like if you're cooking personnel some NOZZLE CONTROL lessons are in order. Fogs work GREAT for hydraulic venting and a number of Fire control secenerios. Smooth bores aren't terribly effective on LP emergencies(except tank cooling)just for ONE example. ANY fog nozzle I've run over this period will produce a SUITABLE pattern for the intended purpose including a pretty decent STRAIGHT stream. NOTICE I said Straight,NOT solid. T.C.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
            The straight stream provided from the fog has more "air" than the smoothbore. You say more experience means you can make decisions when fogs are better? Water mixed with air is counter productive. Fogging or widening the patter, aka breaking away from a solid stream, goes against fighting the fire and understanding fire behavior, which I'm sure you know, as a Marshall. Why not put it out faster with a more effective stream? You don't need fog inside a building "while" attacking the fire. You'll be much more comfortable in the building by producing less steam, and most importantly put the fire out faster.

            Marshall, I'm curious, are you a Marshal?. How long have you been off the line? If you're volunteer, where is it? I like to look at the experience of the commenter's here, it helps to determine what opinions I form.

            Thanks

            You truley are RETARDED aren't you? Let me guess, you're awesome fire hero brother taught you this garbage also didn't he? I wonder if your brother knows what kind of crap you're going around here saying that he's taught you? He'd probably give you a swift kick in the @$$ for making him look like an ignorant probie. In case you haven't heard, they figured out that steam displaces the oxygen in the air smothering the fire and also aids in cooling more fire area faster. Smoothbores are great for penetraion, but when you need a lot of vapor surface area, fog is the way to go.

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            • #36
              Hook - line & sinker - and all the bait
              ?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
                Smooth bores are better nozzles for interior firefighting and cheaper, too.
                My bro agrees, in trying to remember, from best of memory, this is what he said his dept. uses...

                1 3/4" line - 15/16 tip
                2 1/2" line - 1 1/8 tip

                he said 180 gpm is the minimum target.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I always enjoyed shoving a nice wide fog into attic fires. Works really well.

                  Keeps the chief from throwing up the sticks.

                  Comment

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